Are short courses devaluing the trades.

[Andy Allen]

yes i think these courses are devaluing our trade.......learn how to tile in 6 weeks, hmmm may be....learn how to fix stone, mosaic, polished porcelain, large format, decoupling membranes, slc, ufh, backer boards, when to use white addy, grey addy, flexable grout, Silicon....the list is endless.....add on to that, how to run a business...... quoting, business expenses and costings, invoices, receipts, business accounts and papper work, trade accounts ect... learn all that in 6 weeks?........thing is you need to, if you want to compete against experienced and established tradesmen, and there lies the problem with these courses, painting a rosey picture, that isnt there!!

as for the peeps that take the courses, as has already been said, i imagine a large percentage of them never get past the starting gate, those that do make it.....i take my hat off to them, i know they have worked hard and put the effort in to make there business a success, and in this day and age, referrals are the key to success, quality work is a must.

my bug bare ,are the muppets that think they can do it, and they cant, they finish there course, run round the local tile shop, like a headless chicken, buying what tools they need and telling anyone that will listen there a fully qualified tiler, they then charge a pittence to tile someones bathroom, then after 2hrs they realise there way out of there depth and leg it!!....belive you me ive seen it..

imo i dont think you can beat hands on training day in day out with a skilled tradesman, watching, learning, and asking questions, however in this day and age these opportunities are far and few between, so were back to the tiling course, they need to be more regulated, more honesty is needed and they need to make it very clear you will be tought the very basics of tiling.........and no you wont be earning 28...75k in your first year!!

 

[DHTiling]

Some really good replies... keep them coming..

 

[Colour Republic]

I believe there was a big boom in the training centres when the government announced we were short of x million homes and to build them the workforce was short of x hundreds of thousands of tradesmen. Cue businessmen that see a licence to print money, then the media took the average plumbers emergency call-out charge, x times that by 8 hours a day and hey presto headlines that say a plumber earns £300k a year without even trying:mad2:

Yes I believe training centres devalue the building industry, they promise big earnings and turn out a basic trained workforce who have been told they are ready to go it alone. This workforce undercut everybody else because they have no comprehension of the real costs and labour involved, they lose money and in turn drive down the cost of labour for the rest of the industry. Established firms go to the wall and those that do survive have to be doing very well to be able to afford training a competent workforce as it should be. In addition those that do come out of the course ill equipped (around 80% judging by this thread) then turn out shocking work a further devalue the public’s impression of the industry.

A viscous cycle

I believe it would work much better if the training centres offered an introduction to the industry and for the thousands they charge they then place the trainees into an established firm to further their education. What does an advance course cost these days? £2k? Hang on just checked and was greeted by the following.

"This five day advanced course is designed to cover all aspects of floor and wall tiling. We feel confident that after spending time with us at our centre you will be able to tackle everyday tiling requirements."

"Professional Tiling course covers the elements necessary to become a professional tiler. "

"Become NVQ qualified in tiling in 4 weeks - earn up to £50k per year"

"Tiling NVQ - Skilled Worker Card - 2 Days"

My personal favourite "Tiling Course on eBay for less." Seems you can learn it all for £2.99 -

HOW TO LAY WALL & FLOOR TILES TILING COURSE DVD NOVICE | eBay



Of course they can't be held responsible for the state the general industry is in but they certainly don't help IMO. No disrespect to those that have come through a course and succeeded but I’m guessing that is more to do with aptitude than the training centres producing well turned out tilers/plumbers/plasterers... Seems bit pot luck to me, surely if the training centres were producing a skilled workforce then successful attendees would outweigh the failures rather than the other way round.

 

[doug boardley]

just wondering where I stand,,,I don't actually have any​ tiling qualifications...

 

[Colour Republic]

just wondering where I stand,,,I don't actually have any​ tiling qualifications...

Personally I don't think qualifications have much relation to ability. I know plenty of people with qualifications who are crap at their job.

When employing people i'd never ask for qualifications, I can tell in 5 mins if they are going to be any good. Normally because they say something that shows they are already thinking 10 steps ahead. I'm sure thaty only comes with experience

 

[doug boardley]

Personally I don't think qualifications have much relation to ability. I know plenty of people with qualifications who are crap at their job.

When employing people i'd never ask for qualifications, I can tell in 5 mins if they are going to be any good. Normally because they say something that shows they are already thinking 10 steps ahead. I'm sure thaty only comes with experience[/QUOTE]
I'd like to think so Rob..after 30 years of trying

 

[The D]

just wondering where I stand,,,I don't actually have any​ tiling qualifications...

i had no quals until i started teaching now i have NVQ3 and i am still crap.

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

Personally I don't think qualifications have much relation to ability. I know plenty of people with
qualifications who are crap at their job.


I think Rob has hit the nail on the head, with that statement. I probably have every qualification it is possible to have within the tiling industry, but that is only because I came from the old school system time served college, day release, City & Guilds etc. But if I was crap at my job, non of that would matter.

I know some tilers who are time served, and yet are still as rough today as they were while they were serving their apprenticeships, I have said before imo good tiling or any trade comes from a certain type of person, a mind set on striving for perfection, attention to detail, a good eye, and most of all a conscience. But I still have issues with these fast track courses.

 

[Daz]

Okay, I've skimmed this thread and here's my input....

I'm a course tiler. I did have a lot of construction experience as I've been on building sites since the age of 10, but my builder father advised me not to follow his footsteps into self employed construction due to the recession at the back end of the 70's (he had a rough time).
I forged a well paid and successful career in IT but was never really happy. I negotiated an exit strategy from my career and used the money to fund my training and business startup.

Determination and ability (and I will add aptitude) have been mentioned, and I agree. Also, I don't believe that I could have made my business as successful without finding TF. I know it sounds as though I'm blowing smoke, but without the knowledge offered by the time served and experienced guys i would never have been able to achieve the steep learning curve required. Just like Phil, I'm always learning and it's great that I've found somewhere that I can continue to expand my knowledge.

I don't believe course tiling is devaluing the market as the "poor" tilers are being found out pretty quick. The tilers that are prepared to go the extra mile, whether course trained or otherwise are always going to be successful, IMO. My pricing is definitely higher than my local competition and I'm always stacked out because quality and service will always stand out.

Daz

 

[bobbynz]

Correct me if I am wrong but do you not have a national qualifications authority that establishes and regulates the level of qualifications you can gain.
For instance over here you can take a course for tiling at any educational institute but the course details are determined by the NZQA so no matter who teaches you they must follow their predetermined curriculum. We have a short course which is 10 weeks which is a level 2 tiling qualification but its being removed so that there will only be 1 course to qualify as a tiler. Its based on a 3 year program and served over part of that time as an apprentice apart from that if you don't know a thing about tiling and have already been in the workforce for a while then the only way you can get into tiling is if you have a mate or a family member in the trade who is generous enough to take the time to teach you and pay you at the same time. Which is how i got into the trade with my father 28 years ago.
Today its not so easy and from what the talk is today we will all have to be licensed to work as a tiling contractor in the next couple of years. Hence the change from 10 weeks to 3 years.
What i don't understand about the UK "tiling courses" is who determines the level of expertise and qualifications. You say some are for 4 days and some are for 4 weeks, who qualifies the instructors?
Who established what must be taught?
Do you guys see this as a problem? Our trade has been earned not just given away like a lolly (sweeties to you guys) scramble.
Most of the guys i know have worked hard to earn their trade and thats the way it should be. Imo any short course and a piece of paper will only break down and corrupt an industry that has fast become a highly skilled and technical career.
If you want in then be prepared to serve your time as the boy. You wont make much but if you are serious and passionate about your craft then you will do just fine. oh and by the way.................Go the mighty allblacks!!:hurray:

 

[Gazzer]

Bobbynz can you please try and use Capitals ( when needed) and paragraphs. It makes it so much easier to read.
I have edited the above post.

 

[stephen street]

A view from outside the box.
The building trade/builders and suppliers have for years been debasing the trades.
Take the really obvious one, ********* ******* anyone seen him lately? I doubt it, he was confined to history by dot and dab/tap and joint. Yes you have probably twigged, his much cheeper and more readily available replacements all did suppliers 2/4 day courses. So you have a shortage of people able to perform the craft, because plasterers no longer got paid ,hence not passing on their skills. The practise of builders to offer all their work to a one man band for him to find other subbies to keep the prices down. Has probably debased the tilling game more than any. The guy has not got a clue about pricing (nor do the builders want him to) so he accepts a flat covering X per mtr.

 

[The D]

A view from outside the box.
The building trade/builders and suppliers have for years been debasing the trades.
Take the really obvious one, ****** *******anyone seen him lately? I doubt it, he was confined to history by dot and dab/tap and joint. Yes you have probably twigged, his much cheeper and more readily available replacements all did suppliers 2/4 day courses. So you have a shortage of people able to perform the craft, because plasterers no longer got paid ,hence not passing on their skills. The practise of builders to offer all their work to a one man band for him to find other subbies to keep the prices down. Has probably debased the tilling game more than any. The guy has not got a clue about pricing (nor do the builders want him to) so he accepts a flat covering X per mtr.

I'm not sure i agree 100 percent. I do see your point but as with all things people will search for cheaper options but the change in the materials used does not mean we lose master trades men it just means we all have to keep learning.

 

[DHTiling]

A view from outside the box.
The building trade/builders and suppliers have for years been debasing the trades.
Take the really obvious one, ********* ******* anyone seen him lately? I doubt it, he was confined to history by dot and dab/tap and joint. Yes you have probably twigged, his much cheeper and more readily available replacements all did suppliers 2/4 day courses. So you have a shortage of people able to perform the craft, because plasterers no longer got paid ,hence not passing on their skills. The practise of builders to offer all their work to a one man band for him to find other subbies to keep the prices down. Has probably debased the tilling game more than any. The guy has not got a clue about pricing (nor do the builders want him to) so he accepts a flat covering X per mtr.

As i said in the OP of this thread, please do not mention comp names.. this is purely opinions and not slandering a company or companies.. hope that helps..

 

[Colour Republic]

I think you misunderstood Dave. I think he means a 'Master' plasterer. As in a Master at his trade. Then says the use of plasterboard dot and dabbed then jointed requires less skill. At least that's the way I read it