Are short courses devaluing the trades.

[DHTiling]

Ahh.. i do remember a training comp, same name..

 

[andy8758]

If you take a really open mind on this topic - it matters not how and where you trained. All the training gives you is a basic knowledge of the trade, and an opportunity to try out tiling techniques in a "safe" learning environment. Anyone who goes on any course - whether a 2 week "short" course or a 2 year "long" college course who believes that they are an expert tiler when they have completed the course is a deluded fool.

No matter what training you get, your experience necessary to become an expert tiler can only come from experience of working on real jobs in the real world.

I can understand many tilers who took the "long" training route feeling that was the best way. But I would point out that it is next to impossible for anyone over 20 to get a "long" training course. Neither can a person supporting a home and family afford to "retrain" employed on a £100 (if you are lucky) a week apprenticeship.

So in terms of what they offer - the short course training colleges offer many mature adults like myself, the opportunity to retrain in a new career. Their promises of experience, skills and qualifications have to be taken for what they are - marketing ploys to sell their product. When you finish the course - what the individual does with the skill is down to them. Many who expect an easy career are quickly disappointed, dispirited, and struggle to earn a living.

For myself, I shifted into tiling from a crashing property market, with some skills, but not enough to make a decent living. Six weeks traing was spaced over 6 months working and I am now gradually starting to build up a business after 2 years. Even now it is a roller coaster with some good months and some terrible. But the look on the face of this weeks customer (travertine walls and floor in a walk in shower room) who described the work as "perfect" made up for the fact it took me 3 days to do what the more experienced might do in 8 hours!

So why change to tiling? Cos I love it.

 

[doug boardley]

it's all a bit like driving really, you ain't gonna be Jenson Button just because you've passed your driving test

 

[Yorkshire Tiling Services]

A short term course will only provide a BASIC introduction to the wonderful world of tiling.
Anyone who thinks that it will provide a immediate route into the tiling trade are being hoodwinked by the misrepresentation that some of the training courses are selling.
As an Established Tiler I'am more than happy to discuss all aspects of my trade with DIY'er, novice, or just interested, in order that the job is done correctly - and that's why I'am pleased to have found Tilers Forum.
A good training course will not devalue the tiling trade, but the inadequate trainees who assume it's easy will only provide a sub standard level of workmanship - often attempting work that is above their capabilities - and leaving our industry with a devalued reputation.

I agree generally, but for some it can lead into a career... after my 3 day course I dis a few jobs at home and for friends and family, then a few for my mate.... but from day one I was a self employed tiler, eight years on I still am.
However, looking back some of my first jobs were not that good. One of my first jobs was to tile my bathroom at home, at the time I thought it was ace, now I look at it and shudder... and am embarassed when poople come to house LOL
Is on the list for re - tiling soon, will post a few pics when I get time

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Yorkshire Tiling Services -
But that is exactly what I described - after a short course an inadequate trainee who thinks they are capable of producing a professional job (ie in charging for their services) - are leaving our industry with a devalued reputation. With experience the standard improves but what about all the rubbish that is left in the interim.

 

[stephen street]

HI Denotile(and anyone else reading this!)
The cheaper option is probably the prime motivator,but it it has created more problems along the way. You say "we have to keep learning". Well I'm sure that is going to be true when the refurbishments of the buildings put up in the last ten years or so start in earnest. In fact most tilers will need a good plastering course to enable then to get to put up any metres.The cheaper option has left a refit of a bathroom or kitchen, a hack back to basics, rip it out and start again. (have you ever tried to remove tiles from unfinished plasterboard fixed in say P9?) I was with a kitchen company,doing a showroom. The only spare pair of hands, when one of the fitters called in with a problem. In doing the rip out he'd managed to remove 60/70% of the plaster board walls. Muggins sent out to Dot and Dab the whole kitchen.(Some of the plastering skills do come in handy.) Perhaps it may be a bit premature for some tilers think poorly of "courses",you may have to go on one yourself to do the work once done by the plasterer.
Tongue in cheek, Steve.

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

Most time served tilers can plaster, render, screed, and by screed I mean sand and cement, not slc. It was how it was back in the day all part of the tilers job. No need for a plastering course for me.

 

[White Room]

I know a couple of 30 year tilers who can't plaster to save there lives or refuse to...:smilewinkgrin:

 

[The D]

This tread has been on my mind lately and the fact that some of the training company's that offered NVQ are now under investigation for fraud.:yikes: This is a bad situation as the lads that have an NVQ but do not deserve it are on site and tilers that are time served but have no formal qualifications are sitting at home or confined to domestic work. so in that respect yes the short courses are defiantly devaluing the trades.

 

[White Room]

This tread has been on my mind lately and the fact that some of the training company's that offered NVQ are now under investigation for fraud.:yikes: This is a bad situation as the lads that have an NVQ but do not deserve it are on site and tilers that are time served but have no formal qualifications are sitting at home or confined to domestic work. so in that respect yes the short courses are defiantly devaluing the trades.

I did'nt pay for mine and to be honest really was'nt bothered, it seemed quite a push to get people on it...goverment were funding it at the time.

 

[Colour Republic]

I know a couple of 30 year tilers who can't plaster to save there lives or refuse to...:smilewinkgrin:

I know a couple of 30 year plasterers who can't plaster to save there lives or refuse to...:lol:

 

[Mazbert]

I did a short courses, 5 years ago, quickly to realise I knew little. The courses teaches you in an environment where aside from a wonky bath it is all simple. I struggled when I started out, but stuck with it. Being a woman you are expected to fail, but thankfully my persistence and end result speaks for themselves. I am shocked a little right now, as I took a year off following breaking my leg, and now I am discovering that when I am going for quotes I am loosing out to people willing to work for next to nothing. I am getting jobs more word of mouth where people are happy to pay knowing they will get the desired outcome. I am begining to wonder how much costs per sq mtr have changed in the past 12 months?

 

[Time's Ran Out]

I did a short courses, 5 years ago, quickly to realise I knew little. The courses teaches you in an environment where aside from a wonky bath it is all simple. I struggled when I started out, but stuck with it. Being a woman you are expected to fail, but thankfully my persistence and end result speaks for themselves. I am shocked a little right now, as I took a year off following breaking my leg, and now I am discovering that when I am going for quotes I am loosing out to people willing to work for next to nothing. I am getting jobs more word of mouth where people are happy to pay knowing they will get the desired outcome. I am begining to wonder how much costs per sq mtr have changed in the past 12 months?

:welcome: I mentioned this a while ago, that in fact you may have an advantage with a unique selling point and a market that may prefer your gender. Your history may indeed be an example of how the initial training is only an introduction and that you will not have the skills/confidence at the outset to compete with more established tradespeople.
At the present time there are many working for a wage, but this is not unusual when the building industry is quiet and I find that the professional approach - along with a competitive price - will win the day.
Good luck with your tiling - and don't go breaking another leg.

 

[stephen street]

Hj Dave,
As long as it is only slander I'd be"up for",then I could cope with that. Truth is I haven't spoken to anyone about "Master Plasterers" in a long time, Site workers don't remember their demise.
Barrack room Lawyer(one for the ex servicemen.)Steve.

 

[Dan]

I think there is a market for them to be honest. I know of some tilers that have gone through college who are slow, okay at their job but nothing special. And I know some guys that have done a 4 week course and are about the same in skill level and experience.

I know of some colleges that fitted 1 square meter after 12 weeks of talking about fitting them. Then they'd strip it, and use the same tiles again and again and again to tile the same spot.

Before the short courses there wasn't really any other option. Go college when you could make it (and if you could afford to take days off in some other job) or just wing it and hope you get the advice from adhesive manufacturers and the likes.

I think BAL were the first main ones to do short courses and they were free at the time all day long. They gave you a BAL "Wall and Floor Tiler" certificate and you were on your way.

I think the courses have come a long way since then and providing you can do most of it in the training centre and then do some site visits, you can even get an NVW out of it quicker than you can a college.

So swings and roundabouts.

No tiler after doing a course, getting their NVQ, via whatever route, or going college, will be anything like what they will be once they've done some real world jobs.

And that's why a father can teach his son on the job with no grades involved but just a good rollocking when get bodges it here and there, can be a brilliant tiler after a couple of years. And he'd never need a certificate to prove anything and wouldn't entertain getting one in most cases I'd bet too.

As for the original question though, are they actually devaluing the industry/trade? Perhaps so - but really it's down to the trainee's being convinced that they can tile perfectly now when only attending a 4 week course or whatever. When in actual fact they've probably fitted about 50 meters of tile and they're yet to fit the thousands of meters you really need before you start boasting how well you tile. But the same effect comes from the colleges I'd have thought so perhaps not just down to the short courses.

I know good and bad tilers that are time served (just never done it right in the first place and are now well stuck in their bad ways), good and bad tilers from short courses, and good and bad tilers from colleges. The good ones are normally the ones that did it right from the start and just practised. The bad ones are usually the ones that did it wrong from the start and never bother to get the data sheets and technical advice and that sort of stuff that comes with this trade that is having new products introduced at least annually by adhesive, tool and tile manufacturers.

Just my £2.20. (Inflation - used to be 2p).