Discuss chandalier disaster in the British & UK Tiling Forum area at TilersForums.com.

S

sibs

Lets put it this way... would any of you have just relied on the tiler to tell everyone else? I thought not! You just wouldn't take a stupid risk like that. Like the foreman said - anyone could've turned that switch on. Customer should've isolated the circuit. No.1 rule in electrics! Seems to me it was the customer who should've taken action to ensure that the light could not have been switched on instead of relying on telling one of your employees to tell his foreman. I agree with Gaz Dave and Tom... get legal advice before you do anything. Hope everything goes well for you
 
T

Turkish

Yepppppppp! The tiler couldn`t really be considered a person in a position of responsibility. Had the client told you or the foreman not to use the light switch then it maybe different. As gutting as it is for the client if you have a £3200 "light fitting" then surely you take EVERY reasonable step to protect it during works......not just tell one tiler not to use the switch, oh, and by the way, could you pass it on!
 
T

tiler tom

Don you are right we do not know each other but I havn't a clue what you are saying in your post.

You go to tile a floor, you or the customer covers it with a sheet ect. Whats that to do with the price of fish.

Tell him to swivel is not exactly the term I would use in that situation it is just short for "im sorry it isn't my fault I didn't place the sheet there you should have turned off the power not expected my tiler to stand next to the light switch and tell everybody not to turn the switch on when he had your work to do".

Fekin I was using the electrics as an example. You would isolate if you cared about yourself or if you didn't want your £3500 chandalier to have a chance of deing damaged.

Tell him to swivel
 
R

Raja

I think u missing the point DVT mate if you had spent £2300 on a chandalier would you rely on just telling 1 person not to turn the light on and hope word got around or would you MAKE SURE nobody COULD turn that light on?
I know what I would've done..... common sense!

£3200 not £2300 we r 2 very different people who think very differently i respect ur posts and opinions but i think it is a little naive for you to suggest i may be missing the point.
 
I

IvegotsTILE

I would first take legal advice but if I was working there and someone told me not to switch the light on because of the precautions she'd taken I'd make sure I did tell all of the other lads.
A difficult one to call,I'd be really pi**ed off that my foreman had been so rude and not even mentioned an apology.
I personally would say it was the customers fault but I'd be willing to pay the excess as a good will gesture and I would have a slight sense of guilt myself.

I can completely understand where DVT is coming from though.
 
S

sibs

Sorry DVT I'm just asking what you would have done if it were your chanderlier that that you didn't want damaged? I don't think I am being naive the point is the customer was rather stupid not to take every precaution to protect the very expensive chanderlier. Quite clearly it was the customer that was very naive to think that it was ok to tell 1 person such an important piece of information and hope that the employee remembers to pass it on to the foreman - who he or she is probably not expecting to turn up at that particular moment in time, and in the split second before the the foreman flicks the switch. I'm sorry but if it were my house I simply would not have left it to chance.
----
Dontcha just love a good debate??! lol
 
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R

Raja

Sorry DVT I'm just asking what you would have done if it were your chanderlier that that you didn't want damaged? I don't think I am being naive the point is the customer was rather stupid not to take every precaution to protect the very expensive chanderlier. Quite clearly it was the customer that was very naive to think that it was ok to tell 1 person such an important piece of information and hope that the employee remembers to pass it on to the foreman - who he or she is probably not expecting to turn up at that particular moment in time, and in the split second before the the foreman flicks the switch. I'm sorry but if it were my house I simply would not have left it to chance.

It,s ok Sibs i am sorry too if i come across a little over the top recently moved home to a new build property and have had to deal with alot of tradesmen so got no symphathy for them have been subject to many balls ups. I Am 1 my self and have been for 6 years if i am in the worng usually accept every one who knows me know wot i am about.

You asked me the question if it was me what would i do well i will b honest with you The owner wud pay 1 way or another bottom line. I have never been 1 for legal advice sorry but am being honest.
 
F

Fekin

Everyone is saying "that's what you would have done", but we're all in a trade where you have to think about things like this all the time.... customers don't.

If I had a group of 4 or 5 trademen in my home from the same company and I told one of them something important, I would expect him to inform everyone in his working party and not keep it to himself and me have to inform everyone one at a time, or arrange a group hug to inform them.

Look, the customer was wrong not to take better steps to avert disaster but so could the tiler.

Expecting a customer to know all about isolation is a bit too far... we should all know what customers are like... their not experts all too often, and in their view, telling the tiler not to use something in their eyes was enough.

Why didnt the tiler tape up the switch or look at isolation though.
 
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S

sibs

This is turning into a helluva debate! :3: I respect the fact that everyone has an opinion - it would be a boring world if we all thought the same! It is interesting to see what everyone thinks I just hope this helps johnnyclarke to decide how to proceed with this matter and that we haven't confused you too much lol.... opinion seems to be somewhat split...
 
R

Raja

This is turning into a helluva debate! :3: I respect the fact that everyone has an opinion - it would be a boring world if we all thought the same! It is interesting to see what everyone thinks I just hope this helps johnnyclarke to decide how to proceed with this matter and that we haven't confused you too much lol.... opinion seems to be somewhat split...
Obviously caught ur eye:broken_heart:
 
T

tiler tom

So according to Fekin the Tiler having been told ot the potential damage to the chandalier should have told the rest of the workforce or put down the trowel and undertaken an electricians job and isolated himself !

So if the customers wife/son/daughter/brother/sister/mother/father and so on had come home and swiched the light on that he had not isolated, taped up or informed them about who would then be responsible the tiler in the pub in the evening blowing the top off a cold one after a hard days graft, the customers or the other party for not checking to see if by chance somebody has happened to put a sheet over the light before switching on.

I know who my money is on, the guy who placed a sheet on a knowingly functioning light.

Tell him to swivel.
 
F

Fekin

Tiler tom, there is a difference between the the workmen turning on the light and causing the damage after they had been told not to, and the customers own family, so it would be helpful if you stopped bending what I have said.

So according to Fekin the Tiler having been told ot the potential damage to the chandalier should have told the rest of the workforce or put down the trowel and undertaken an electricians job and isolated himself !

No I do not expect a tiler to do an electricians job, but with the sounds of it you'd expect a totally unqualified customer to do so then ?

We all know that unlimetly the customers should have done more to protect their light, but they didn't, but they did inform a member of the companies workforce that was there in their home.

When you are working for a company, you are basically an extension of that company, you a representative of that company in someones home, so once a customer has told a member of a company something, they have basically told the company not to do something, and I believe the blame would ultimately lay with the company in law.

So, Tiler tom, if it had been the tiler that the customer had told not to use the light that had forgotton the next day and he turned the light on, would that still have been the customers fault ?
If I had been the tiler working for the company and I had been told "don't turn this light on cos it'll burn the house down if you do", the first thing that would have gone through my mind was "well there's 5 of us here so I'd better tell everyone not to use it, and stick up the switch so no accidents can happen".

Im not just saying that, it's down right common sense, and being paid to do a job by a company is also to use your common sense in every aspect while you are working on site, to eliminate as many forms of risk as possible if you are aware they exsist, and on a health and saftey aspect of it, every workman on site should have seen this risk and took the propper steps to eliminate that risk, after all, they had been there one full day as it was, so for the risk to still be there on day 2 after they we're told about it is negligent of risk assement.

That's what you pay people that work for you to do, and cannot shift the blame onto the customer.
I come from a very health and safety oriented industary, and if this accident had happened on that site, that someone was made aware of the risk and took no steps to eliminate it, they would have either been disciplined or removed from site, no question.

The real question that should be asked here, was why did the tiler say nothing once the customer had told him.

There isn't an excuse on the tilers behalf.

The only way they could try and get out of being liable would be to say the customer had not informed anyone of the risk, but depending on how visible the risk was, that still might not be enough in law to get out of.

Im sorry of you don't like it, but from a legal point of view the customer will most probably win, unless they lie and say the customer said nothing.

Telling the customer to swivel in court isn't going to do a damn thing :lol: , even though you might feel like that.
 
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G

grumpygrouter

If it was me, I would have taped the sodding switch up myself! 5 secs to save an awful lot of hassle!

First seek legal advice, second refer the matter to insurance company and then see what transpires. You could discuss the situation with the customer "without prejudice" awaiting the outcome of legal and insurance. A gesture of goodwill after all this may then not be out of place.

Grumpy
 

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