Dot & Dab travertine?

[Fekin]

on plasterboard....

 

[grumpy]

Irespective of spankys woes the original debate was simply this and nothing else.Are there circumstances where D&D is acceptable.The work that pjtiler does proves without doubt that there are.
A completly seperate issue is, In what circumstances is D&D acceptable?
i dont think anyone wants to lead that one off do they!

 

[Fekin]

I thought the original debate was wether dot and dabbing travertine onto plasterboard in "Mr Smiths" bathroom was a good safe method.

 

[MICK the Tiler]

All good valid points made for NOT using dot and dab technique Water penatration , differences in air pressure behind tiles all sound and time proven. Another point against D&D is you can get a case of what we call down here MIRROR TRANSFER I'm not sure if it has been mentioned my batteries on the laptop will run flat wadding through 20 pages of posts. What MIRROR TRANSFER does is it will draw the pattern created by the dots and dabs and reflect this through to the front of the tile causing light and dark shading where the D&D are especially servere on stone products but it can and will happen on ceramics and porcelain. You need to comb the wall and also comb the stone as well to create an even solid bed of adhesive wich will be solid across the entire back of the tile.

I still wet bed down here on certain jobs so 3000 odd years of simple techniques are still used today and it will out last any modern adhesive by many many years. Tell a adhesive sales rep that and watch him counter punch with all the techno mumbo jumbo.

 

[grumpy]

I thought the original debate was wether dot and dabbing travertine onto plasterboard in "Mr Smiths" bathroom was a good safe method.

Thats how the thread started but not the debate.

 

[The D]

Irespective of spankys woes the original debate was simply this and nothing else.Are there circumstances where D&D is acceptable.The work that pjtiler does proves without doubt that there are.
A completly seperate issue is, In what circumstances is D&D acceptable?
i dont think anyone wants to lead that one off do they!

It all depends on what you are classing as d and d if it is the work pj is doing then I don’t really class that in the same league as it is mechanically fixed as well. But you could look at it like this the structural engineer did not think the adhesive alone was suitable.
If you are talking about five or six spots on the back of a tile and just stick it on the wall then I will be the first to say NO! Absolutely not! No way no how! Never in the reign of pig sh**!
:mad2:

 

[pjtiler]

I think we should get back on track forget exterior cladding it is a different subject we are talking about the domestic application of large format natural stone.

aye your dead right
i was getting Bord anyway:yes:
that bal rep will probably smack me if he see,s me at interbuild

 

[The D]

And if he don’t I will:lol:

 

[pjtiler]

And if he don’t I will:lol:

you wouldn't hit an OAP Shirley
(with a white stick and a Labrador )

 

[The D]

I will if you don’t stop calling me Shirley

 

[bigneil]

holy smoke, i can't believe this thread has been so prolific.

 

[The D]

watt’s that wean m8 I am just a tiler don’t understand big words

 

[Fekin]

Thats how the thread started but not the debate.

The debate quickly got highjacked and changed direction.

 

[Branty]

aye your dead right
i was getting Bord anyway:yes:
that bal rep will probably smack me if he see,s me at interbuild

If you're refering to me, then no, I hate violence. I usualy get my big brother to do that for me.
If I was going, I would have gladly met up for a coffee.
As has been said earlier. Your cladding with mechanical fixing, shows spot fixing is not strong enough on its own. :yes:

 

[pjtiler]

I will if you don’t stop calling me Shirley

boom boom:joker:

 

[bj F]

Any news on how it is going spanky have you found a fixer yet and is the contractor seeing things differently now?

 

[borgie]

this is better than Cora. , Emmerdale and E'enders! Have to say i'm with pytiler on this 1. Good luck spanky!

 

[andy-p]

All good valid points made for NOT using dot and dab technique Water penatration , differences in air pressure behind tiles all sound and time proven. Another point against D&D is you can get a case of what we call down here MIRROR TRANSFER I'm not sure if it has been mentioned my batteries on the laptop will run flat wadding through 20 pages of posts. What MIRROR TRANSFER does is it will draw the pattern created by the dots and dabs and reflect this through to the front of the tile causing light and dark shading where the D&D are especially servere on stone products but it can and will happen on ceramics and porcelain. You need to comb the wall and also comb the stone as well to create an even solid bed of adhesive wich will be solid across the entire back of the tile.

I still wet bed down here on certain jobs so 3000 odd years of simple techniques are still used today and it will out last any modern adhesive by many many years. Tell a adhesive sales rep that and watch him counter punch with all the techno mumbo jumbo.

you still wettin the bed mick?? have you tried incontinence pants buddy ?? :joker:

 

[felix]

I have read through all 21 pages of this thread for the first time and I am horrified at the dilemma Spanky has found himself in. I have only been tiling for 18 months, and I have nothing more to add than what has already been said. When I was learning I was told categorially never to dot and dab. I now know that there are times where it is acceptable and indeed sometimes necessary. The bottom line appears to be that regardless of the method you use it is important that there is good coverage on the correct substrate. I would like to thank the other posters for their contributions because I have learned quite a bit from reading it.

I was recently called by a woman who had floor tiles cracking in her kitchen. When I looked they were travertine and they had been spot fixed. They were fixed down well but the lack of coverage had caused them to crack

 

[pjtiler]

I have read through all 21 pages of this thread for the first time and I am horrified at the dilemma Spanky has found himself in. I have only been tiling for 18 months, and I have nothing more to add than what has already been said. When I was learning I was told categorially never to dot and dab. I now know that there are times where it is acceptable and indeed sometimes necessary. The bottom line appears to be that regardless of the method you use it is important that there is good coverage on the correct substrate. I would like to thank the other posters for their contributions because I have learned quite a bit from reading it.

I was recently called by a woman who had floor tiles cracking in her kitchen. When I looked they were travertine and they had been spot fixed. They were fixed down well but the lack of coverage had caused them to crack

you wait till the movie comes out
(Bruce Willis is going to play me )

 

[Spirit]

Are you that old?!!

 

[pjtiler]

Are you that old?!!

yep:yes:

 

[The D]

i have just spent 15 minutes reading the posts about this subject and i have to agree with grumpy on this ,if done correctly dot and dabbing tiles is a good method of fixing tiles but i stress most clearly you must know what you are doing .bs 5385 covers the installation of floor and wall tiles and specifies best practice for the installation of the tiles and the reason why adhesive manufactures dont recommend dot and dabbing is most adhesives arent recommended to be used more than 12mm thick. lets be clear adhesive has only been around for 30-40 years before that every tile was fitted using sand and cement mortar beds if any one has ever tried to remove a tile fitted this way you will know that its the best way of fitting tiles due to the 100% coverage and the unbeleivble bond strength of the mortar no additives just opc and sand .if done correctly and you achieve 100% coverage dot and dabbing and you slide you tiles to open the adhesive and dont bed out more than 11mm you will achieve the same results from the adhesive as combing it on with a serrated trowel more importantly i would be more concerned on how the adhesive was mixed than how it was applied ,adhesive must be mechanically mixed with a drill and whisk, the walls must be sound and free of friable material and the adhesive must be applied to the wall with a trowel .the problem is the tiler you have just put a few dots on has not got the coverage required and didnt trowel it on to the wall and you have an un safe installation this wont help clearing up this post ,i just thought that grumpy has been unfairly treated and good luck to him for having experience and not just reading technical books and spouting bs, british standards that is lol

Sorry to drag up old posts but I’ve only just spotted it (excuse the pun) I’m sorry you think I gave grumpy a hard time but when a man say’s tings like (From the photo you posted it looks like there is at least 75% coverage on the tile and that’s good enough.) Incorrect and (Spanky I can tell you now before you get into a huge wrangle with this tiler, if you end up in court on the issue of dabbing tiles you will without a shadow of doubt loose the case.) Incorrect in my opinion he deserved the reception he got.
Just as a mater of fact I didn’t get all my knowledge from books and reading the standards. Although it is true I do read the technical information and I do try to keep up with the British standards but I have don a couple of kitchen splash backs as well.

 

[grumpy]

the time of a post often reflects it qaulity and validity!

 

[Spud]

Sorry to drag up old posts but I’ve only just spotted it (excuse the pun) I’m sorry you think I gave grumpy a hard time but when a man say’s tings like (From the photo you posted it looks like there is at least 75% coverage on the tile and that’s good enough.) Incorrect and (Spanky I can tell you now before you get into a huge wrangle with this tiler, if you end up in court on the issue of dabbing tiles you will without a shadow of doubt loose the case.) Incorrect in my opinion he deserved the reception he got.
Just as a mater of fact I didn’t get all my knowledge from books and reading the standards. Although it is true I do read the technical information and I do try to keep up with the British standards but I have don a couple of kitchen splash backs as well.

well you obviously have strong opinions on this dean do you agree with any of the information on my post if you are keeping up with british standards and try to stay within their guidelines how did this effect you when the first uncoupling membranes were developed? they didnt meet any of the british standard guide lines that were in at that time when adhesive was first manufactured that didnt have an installation guide line at that time either, would you have waited 2 years before using them until 5385 was updated just because you are unfamilar with certain techniques dont dsicredit them and try not to take things too personally grumpy gave his professional opinion which i respect just the same way as i respect yours