Dot & Dab travertine?

[White Room]

This is what a forum is about, The views of many and the education of some

 

[enduro]

I want to see it to the end, but to many people saying dot and dab is ok and everybody falling out, so let see what happens. didnt mean to say i was getting bored with this thread im finding it very interesting but i think enough has been said about this subject for now and i hope spanky gets the result he wants.

 

[sibs]

So....what is the correct way to spot fix? Would love to find out the correct method from the "if done correctly" brigade because its all very well saying it is ok "if done correctly" but you don't tell us what correctly is. Would it then give the grout something to stick to besides the two tiles it is in between? And would it better protect the untanked plasterboard in the same way that full coverage would, given that an untanked shower area is not the ideal? Also forgive me but if you trowel ridges of adhesive onto a tile and then push it onto the wall wouldn't that squash the adhesive into the valleys thus eliminating them and givingfull coverage?

 

[spanky]

Reading that last post has made me rethink an idea that may negat the need to remove all the tile?

Is it possible to inject adhesive through the grout gaps behind the tiles?

If it is possible, how, who, etc etc

Seems feasible?

Could save £3000 worth of work?

 

[sibs]

nice thought spanky but how would you do it? Cement based adhesive is pretty thick stuff it would have to be quite pressurised wouldn't it?

 

[spanky]

I have no idea.

 

[sibs]

Lol niether do I.....Anyone?

 

[oogabooga]

Sibs, to say notch trowelling will give something near full coverage sounds very ignorant - you must tile over perfect walls. If you've ever had to remove tiles installed in that manner you'd see for yourself that coverage is nowhere near what you might hope. If you want to parrot what you've been told then that's fine - just understand that it is the coverage that is important, the method used to achieve it is of secondary importance.

As for the lack of membrane, if you want to believe that notch trowelling will afford some protection to the substrate, well good luck with that!. Just so you are clear - I am not defending this guys work, it looks dodgey to me, it's just that you're rubbishing a method that you know nothing about and that clearly works everywhere else in the world except the UK:mickey:

 

[uug197h]

just to throw a spanner in to the works, just been to a job to remove a radiator and chance it to a towel rail the tiler had cut round the brackets so i had to remove the tiles and replace them, the tiler had notch troweled them but i pulled them of with my fingers. the tiles have been up over a year. the customer is looking at getting the full bathroom redone now, so even using a notch trowel dosen't mean the job is done correctly

 

[cam_low]

maybe so, however what are the tiles fixed too ? Do you know if the walls were primed if need be ? Did he use the correct sticky ?


You just don't know !!!

I think with regards to the issue in hand we get Mr Holmes in. He always saves the day!

 

[sibs]

And sweden!
oogabooga I wasn't rubbishing anything I was asking a question and when I tile walls I make sure I get 100% coverage and no none of the walls I have ever tiled have been completely flat and in such situations I would be back buttering my tiles as well as troweling the walls and also I think it depends on the size and type of notched trowel you use as to weather there is enough adhesive on the tile to fill in the valleys when it is pressed onto the walls...I tend to make sure there is if I do do that.
Don't forget I was refering to the walls in spankys bathroom. Newly hung plasterboard should be pretty flat don't you think?
On the subject of tanking the point I was trying to make is that spankeys walls weren't tanked and dotting and dabbing adhesive onto tiles in a shower area with untanked walls will afford the walls less protection against water ingress than if they were fully covered with adhesive. If you read my post you will see that I did say untanked walls weren't the ideal and I was refering to the fact that spanky's walls weren't, not that I wouldn't! If the customer offered me the use of aqua board or some other tanking system I would have used it but the contractor and the tiler turned it down.
At the end of the day all you can do is recommend that the area is tanked and if they don't want to spend the money on it then thats it but this guy did and the tiler didn't want to use it.
You still haven't answered my question!

 

[Fekin]

Sibs, to say notch trowelling will give something near full coverage sounds very ignorant - you must tile over perfect walls. :mickey:

The walls in hand have been dry walled if you read the thread

 

[Keith W]

Hi
All the guys a spot on, dot and dab fixing was outlawed by BS donkeys years ago.
Incidentally, the term waterproof in relation to tile adhesives is generally missused,
any adhesive manufacturer using the term waterproof in describing a ready mix or cement based adhesive is missleading the tiling public and in my view should receive a good slap. The correct term is water resistant i.e. unaffected by water.
Keith W

 

[pjtiler]

Hi
All the guys a spot on, dot and dab fixing was outlawed by BS donkeys years ago.
Incidentally, the term waterproof in relation to tile adhesives is generally missused,
any adhesive manufacturer using the term waterproof in describing a ready mix or cement based adhesive is missleading the tiling public and in my view should receive a good slap. The correct term is water resistant i.e. unaffected by water.
Keith W

i wonder how you would fix these sucker mate
1000 x 500 x 20 wieght 80 kg indian granite
spot fixed ?? (theres really no other way )

 

[Spud]

Hi
All the guys a spot on, dot and dab fixing was outlawed by BS donkeys years ago.
Incidentally, the term waterproof in relation to tile adhesives is generally missused,
any adhesive manufacturer using the term waterproof in describing a ready mix or cement based adhesive is missleading the tiling public and in my view should receive a good slap. The correct term is water resistant i.e. unaffected by water.
Keith W

british standards are guide lines not laws they are updated from time to time as new fixing methods come along if you follow the guide lines good luck to you but if you dont the tile police wont come and arrest you lol

 

[Branty]

british standards are guide lines not laws they are updated from time to time as new fixing methods come along if you follow the guide lines good luck to you but if you dont the tile police wont come and arrest you lol

But if a tile falls off and does some damage, you will be liable.

 

[Branty]

i wonder how you would fix these sucker mate
1000 x 500 x 20 weight 80 kg Indian granite
spot fixed ?? (theres really no other way )

If all you can do is spot fix them, then I'd say they need to be mechanically fixed.
If you're just adding spots of adhesives to the back of a tile that size and weight, you're asking for trouble.

 

[spanky]

I would think over a certain height it would definately be safer to pin them.

They are bery beautiful though.

 

[Branty]

I've worked for BAL only 4 months now, and I've seen plenty of reasons why spot fixing , and not getting a full bed of adhesive doesn't work, especially on floors.
If you have to guage your adhesive inatead of notching, you need to be getting 100% in wet areas.

 

[Spud]

I've worked for BAL only 4 months now, and I've seen plenty of reasons why spot fixing , and not getting a full bed of adhesive doesn't work, especially on floors.
If you have to guage your adhesive inatead of notching, you need to be getting 100% in wet areas.

i couldnt agree more this can be achieved if done correctly

 

[Branty]

I have to add though. Your adhesive cant exceed a 6mm bed, 10mm in isolated areas. To do all this with a guaging trowel is very time consuming. If a wall is only running out by 6 mm, it would probably be easier to make it good before you start.

 

[Branty]

The big problem with d&d, is not necessarily the coverage, although that has to be good to support the weight of a tile. The big problem is bed thickness, if you are bedding over the adhesives limits (5/6mm for most bagged adhesives of most manufacturers), you run the risk of excessive shrinkage and tiles debonding. I've seen it for myself today. 800x800 tiles d&ded. If the customer hadn't been on the ball, and notice the tiles coming loose, then one of them could have well fallen off the wall with the slam of a door.
Just because someone says they been d&d fixing in prestigious establishments, doesn't make them right.
Adhesive technical departments also get called out to such places, to resolve tile failures.

 

[Fekin]

But we are getting away from the original problem of dot and dabbing in this thread, as that was onto plasterboard, and not blocks.

 

[The D]

The problem we have now is the people who have said d and d is a good and acceptable method have dropped them selves in it a bit. As they have said they do this all the time and it is perfectly ok and we are all fools for suggesting that it is not an acceptable method and we don’t know what we are talking about. But now they have said they do it they can’t go back and say ok all the jobs I did like that are substandard. The only way forwards for them now is to convince every one that they are right. They can post pic and clamed to be expert witnesses but can they get any adhesive manufacturers to back them up or can they show us in the British standards where it says this method is acceptable. And the British standards are the minimum standard that we all should be working to if you are not then by definition your work is below standard.

 

[pjtiler]

If all you can do is spot fix them, then I'd say they need to be mechanically fixed.
If you're just adding spots of adhesives to the back of a tile that size and weight, you're asking for trouble.

never done this sort of work mate have you ??
its a good job i have and so far ive not killed anyone

jobs like these are all done to the architects specifications
and checked daily buy the clerk of works and the site engineer
and just so you,ll sleep tonite i used
L pins