In your religion, what's Heaven and Hell meant to be?

[macten]

Can't understand why anyone with their own mind, in this day and age, believes in anything made up by man.

 

[The D]

it has been proven to me. and it can be proven to any body. but it will not ever be the type of proof you are looking for.

 

[Colour Republic]

it has been proven to me. and it can be proven to any body. but it will not ever be the type of proof you are looking for.

Haven't read all of this thread but came in a bit later.

Deano, have you always believed in God? or did you 'find' him at some point?

If it was the latter can I ask if it was at when you may have been at a low point in your life and needed strength?

I'm not questioning your beliefs as i'm fairly unsure of my own TBH, I was brought up as a RC and even went to a RC school but of my friends who have a strong belief in God (some of which attend Church on a regular basis) I find all of them had a strict religious upbringing OR 'found' God at a low point in their lives, and my logical explanation of that is because they needed something else to focus on and draw strength from. Which could mean 2 things, either God gave them strength or the 'Idea' of God gave them strength.

As I say, not questioning your beliefs as it's not my right and this is a very personal subject but I am curious.

 

[SandyFloor]

if you had 66 books that were 1500 years in the writing ,and were written by 40 different authors all saying there are fairies in your garden i may start to think there my be fairies in your garden

That's a good argument and as I was thinking of a counter I questioned myself as to what I was trying to achieve. The question being if there was evidence of a god.

I then thought of my former father-in-law who is a polish immigrant from 1946. He was in the Polish resistance and lost all his family in Warsaw during the war. Not surprisingly he is a devout roman catholic and everyone that knows him wll tell you he is possibly the warmest and most generous person they know. From my experience of him he draws the positives from christianity including the practice of tolerance and forgiveness. I honestly believe he would invite a former nazi officer into his home and offer him every accommodation. That is the kind of man he is.

So if someone said to me that I could remove his faith in one moment I would never think of doing it as I think it has been instrumental in making him the man he is .....and I wouldn't want to do that with anyone else either.

It's often argued religion is the cause of so many conflicts but there is a growing athiesm movement that seems aggressive towards people with faith (possibly fuelled by Richard Dawkins). When this occurs it demonstrates a lack of tolerance which is surely a similar intolerance which causes the aforementioned conflicts and wars.

So to answer my own question whether there is evidence of a God......it doesn't really matter. I will say if someone's faith works for them who am I to question it?

I'm a Jedi anyway

 

[doug boardley]

Davinci code I think was the one I had in my wishlist mate. Should I get both?

Angels and Demons is the better one of the two I've read four of his but at the mo can't remember the names of the other two (but it is 5:30 am and not properly awake yet) but deffo good reads.

 

[doug boardley]

if there is a God, or an all omnipotent being, why did he let the Devil carry on?, I must say that I'm neither a firm believer or disbeliever, but if people say "why would God let this happen?" then surely they must've forgotten about the Devil who could have caused the grief.

 

[mikethetile]

anyone been watching the david attenborough series on how it all began

gripping stuff, explains a lot

 

[mikethetile]

what youve got to remember with this whole god thing is that he doesnt mind wether you believe or not

 

[diamondtiling]

The Catholic Church would want us to believe all of these 'miracles'

Healing of the leper (Matt 8:2) without any medical knowledge?

The storm stilled (Matt 8:23) no it just died down naturally

Healing of the two blind men (Matt 9:27-31) impossible

Jesus feeds 5,000 (Matt 14:15) with a basket of bread and a few fish. lets say he had 5 loaves, each person would get 0.03% of a loaf (assuming he sliced each one into 30 pieces each) by the time it was handed out it would be mouldy and the fish would have a bit of a pong

Jesus walks on the sea (Matt 14:25) of course he did, happens every day

Feeding of the four thousand (Matt 15:32) new one on me, could do with him in famine torn countries right now

turning water into wine..... is this for real?

rising from the dead after hanging on a cross all day.......only way that could happen is if he did not die in the first place.

ascending into heaven.... so he managed to beat the laws of gravity and lift off skywards, he went through all of the atmospheres some of which burn you to a speck, others have no oxygen and assuming that space is infinite he must still be going? must be freezing without a good coat.

What a load of rubbish, the sooner people stop believing all this man made crap that is there to control people and make them think in a certain way the better. I am always very dubious of people that claim they have 'seen the light' they always just happened to have been on their own so no backup there.
As Dan said we die and thats it, we rot, simple.

 

[The D]

The Catholic Church would want us to believe all of these 'miracles'
Healing of the leper (Matt 8:2) without any medical knowledge?
The storm stilled (Matt 8:23) no it just died down naturally
Healing of the two blind men (Matt 9:27-31) impossible
Jesus feeds 5,000 (Matt 14:15) with a basket of bread and a few fish. lets say he had 5 loaves, each person would get 0.03% of a loaf (assuming he sliced each one into 30 pieces each) by the time it was handed out it would be mouldy and the fish would have a bit of a pong
Jesus walks on the sea (Matt 14:25) of course he did, happens every day
Feeding of the four thousand (Matt 15:32) new one on me, could do with him in famine torn countries right now
turning water into wine..... is this for real?
rising from the dead after hanging on a cross all day.......only way that could happen is if he did not die in the first place.

ascending into heaven.... so he managed to beat the laws of gravity and lift off skywards, he went through all of the atmospheres some of which burn you to a speck, others have no oxygen and assuming that space is infinite he must still be going? must be freezing without a good coat.
What a load of rubbish, the sooner people stop believing all this man made crap that is there to control people and make them think in a certain way the better. I am always very dubious of people that claim they have 'seen the light' they always just happened to have been on their own so no backup there.
As Dan said we die and thats it, we rot, simple.

:lol::lol::lol::lol: if it was easy it wouldn't be much of a 'miracle'

 

[Ajax123]

The Catholic Church would want us to believe all of these 'miracles'

Healing of the leper (Matt 8:2) without any medical knowledge? Leprosy during the period the bible was written/editted was a global term used to descibe many deseases besides what we classically know now as leprosy. It included things which we would probably term STD's for example syphilis. If you know anything about Syphilis you will know that primary and secondary syphilis disappear (as if cured) - unfortunately if left un treated it re appears later on and seriously affects the patients mental state. It is thought that Herod suffered from Syphilis.

The storm stilled (Matt 8:23) no it just died down naturally Agreed

Healing of the two blind men (Matt 9:27-31) impossible Why is it impossible. Surely it depends on what has caused the blindness in the first place - of course the reference to Healing the blind could just as easily be an analogous reference to the process of "initiation" of followers into Jesus's "secret society" of disciples.

Jesus feeds 5,000 (Matt 14:15) with a basket of bread and a few fish. lets say he had 5 loaves, each person would get 0.03% of a loaf (assuming he sliced each one into 30 pieces each) by the time it was handed out it would be mouldy and the fish would have a bit of a pong This sounds like a good party to me. Bear in mind that it was probably a feast for lots of people rather than 5000. I say this on the basis that many people during the gospel period would have been unable to count as far as 5000 anyway. Additionally - would you know what 5000 people looked like

Jesus walks on the sea (Matt 14:25) of course he did, happens every day The fishing boats were quite quick due to the strong winds across lake Galilee - perhaps he was water skiing.

Feeding of the four thousand (Matt 15:32) new one on me, could do with him in famine torn countries right now Not heared of this one either

turning water into wine..... is this for real? Another analogy for initiation perhaps

rising from the dead after hanging on a cross all day.......only way that could happen is if he did not die in the first place. You should have a read of "the jesus scroll" by Donovan Joyce. He gives a remarkably convincing explanation of how this could easily have happened.

ascending into heaven.... so he managed to beat the laws of gravity and lift off skywards, he went through all of the atmospheres some of which burn you to a speck, others have no oxygen and assuming that space is infinite he must still be going? must be freezing without a good coat. Who made the rule that heaven is in space then

What a load of rubbish, the sooner people stop believing all this man made crap that is there to control people (and you would have what control us? ) and make them think in a certain way the better. I am always very dubious of people that claim they have 'seen the light' they always just happened to have been on their own so no backup there.
As Dan said we die and thats it, ( I hope that is not true but I can offer no evidence to the contrary )we rot, simple.

I'm feeling a bit better today after man flu so thought I would join in this interesting discussion.

 

[suave]

ive not read all these posts on this subject,all i can say is religion is a business,just as any other industry on the planet end of subject imo

 

[Ajax123]

QUOTE=Dan;441052]No. But I beleive in what CAN be proven, and everything that can't be should have equal treatment.

So santa, fairies, ghosts, spirits, gods, ufo's etc etc. If it's not proven it's hear say IMO. And why should we believe in things not proven. He'll, there's more evidence regarding reasons why religions were probably invented than there is evidence god exists.

Isn't there?[/QUOTE]

Such a narrow view on the universe Dan? There must be millions of concepts that cannot be proven. Can you prove that time exists? Can you prove that 2 and 2 is 4? Can you prove that monsters are scary? all of these concepts are man made concepts just as the concept of God. God to me is a psychological concept. Probably invented by our less "enlightened" ancestors due to the human mind needing something to justify events and environmental condition which cannot be explained. Relativity is a thoery. It says that time travel cannot happen due to the old E=MC2 rule. However it also presupposes that time actually exists. God is simply what you choose it to be.

If enough people beleive in the existence of something it must exist if only for them.

What I really object to is when someone else with different beleifs to my own insists that they are right and so I must be wrong. Can we not both be right........

 

[Ajax123]

anyone been watching the david attenborough series on how it all began

gripping stuff, explains a lot

How what all began? Not seen this series

 

[mikethetile]

life

its no coicidence that animals are so similar when you consider we all evolved from a common organism