New bathroom - Acceptable tiling?

[georgechi]

Hi all,

I've got someone doing my bathroom and yesterday they finished tiling. I've been going through the result and I'm not impressed with the quality.

Can you have a look and tell me if I'm too picky?

My issues:
- Some of the tiles are chipped (average sized finger for scale)
- In the far areas (far corner and top edge) they're not cut off straight.
- You can see one that's glued with a lot of adhesive and that changed the line on the wall.
- In a corner they don't match the height.

I've seen a lot of comments around how the grout will fix things. Would that apply to me? Would these issues be less visible through grouting? We are looking at a light grout (silver/ light grey).

Thanks,
George

 

[georgechi]

Well there you go - a builder!
Bit of info in drips and drabs and it was Jack all along.
As for the grout, sometimes it can take 3-4 days for the grout to become impervious .
Happy days!


added after pdc agree!

P.s : not sure what's special about IT. If you wanted a decent job done you should have come here for a tiler in your area first.

My comment around IT was the fact we don't do this kind of labour day in, day out and you'd think someone who takes these jobs would be decent.

Also, this is one of my first experiences with builders as I've just bought a house just recently, but I've definitely learned a lesson.

 

[Old Mod]

Thanks for the advice. Is there a measurable standard by which you can judge the quality of the work? Like lippage? Is there a tool that's used to measure this on walls for an objective judgement?

Thanks,
George

Indeed there is George.
Lippage is measurable in relation to the joint width, but like all facts and figures they often escape us at that very moment in time when they are needed most. So I'm unable to quote exact requirements, however, I'm sure it's about 1mm in a 3mm joint width or close to those figures.
Flatness of finished areas should not exceed
+/- 3mm in 2Lm in any given direction. (That one I recall).

Is this kind of problem common?

Only when non professional tilers are allowed to run amuck.

If you're unlucky you could end up hiring a bad professional tiler and that's unfortunate.

It's really down to you to research your potential tiler, or indeed any tradesman. That is the only way you can potentially protect yourself from this kind of issue.
Always get more than one estimate if you don't have a recommendation to go on.
Ask to see a portfolio or website, should have one or the other.
Ask to go along to a previous project and view it, or visit his current job.
These requests are not unreasonable, and any good tradesman will be only too glad to show you work he's previously completed.

 

[georgechi]

Indeed there is George.
Lippage is measurable in relation to the joint width, but like all facts and figures they often escape us at that very moment in time when they are needed most. So I'm unable to quote exact requirements, however, I'm sure it's about 1mm in a 3mm joint width or close to those figures.
Flatness of finished areas should not exceed
+/- 3mm in 2Lm in any given direction. (That one I recall).



Only when non professional tilers are allowed to run amuck.

If you're unlucky you could end up hiring a bad professional tiler and that's unfortunate.

It's really down to you to research your potential tiler, or indeed any tradesman. That is the only way you can potentially protect yourself from this kind of issue.
Always get more than one estimate if you don't have a recommendation to go on.
Ask to see a portfolio or website, should have one or the other.
Ask to go along to a previous project and view it, or visit his current job.
These requests are not unreasonable, and any good tradesman will be only too glad to show you work he's previously completed.

Thanks for your feedback. I thought I exercised my due diligence, but clearly I should have done a lot more. I did ask for recommendations through friends, saw his website, reviews on checkatrade, facebook and google, but didn't ask to see up close some of his previous work.

Hopefully, this thread will help others in the future.

PS: Is there a tool to measure that?

 

[georgechi]

Here's the result. There's still some work to be done and he'll be back next week to rectify.

Couple of questions:
- Plenty of places where the adhesive wasn't cleaned properly and it's sticking out through the grout. How acceptable is this? Is there any tolerance for this that the trade allows?
- Two chips that I could see. Is there an acceptable number of chips per square meter that the industry allows?
- You can't clearly see it in pictures but some of the tiles are not level. This is why I was asking about lippage.
- You can see the shower line where tiles don't merge straight. With grout it looks better compared with the initial photos I posted.

What's reasonable for me to request without being a nitpicker?

 

[Old Mod]

PS: Is there a tool to measure that?

Use joiners packers they come in 1-10mm sizes.
Or something you know the thickness of.

 

[Tilerdurden]

Here's the result. There's still some work to be done and he'll be back next week to rectify.

Couple of questions:
- Plenty of places where the adhesive wasn't cleaned properly and it's sticking out through the grout. How acceptable is this? Is there any tolerance for this that the trade allows?
- Two chips that I could see. Is there an acceptable number of chips per square meter that the industry allows?
- You can't clearly see it in pictures but some of the tiles are not level. This is why I was asking about lippage.
- You can see the shower line where tiles don't merge straight. With grout it looks better compared with the initial photos I posted.

What's reasonable for me to request without being a nitpicker?

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Safe to say that myself and probably every other tiler on this forum wouldn't leave a grouted finish like that with remnants of adhesive left all over the place. I clean my grout joints as I go before the adhesive sets. Anything missed is removed before grout is applied. Not acceptable in my frame of reference.

The Silicon work is questionable and the fact that some of the crosshairs on the grout lines are several millimetres out is again not acceptable.

If you're handing over cash for a job you should only be doing so when you are 100% satisfied. Imo it's not nitpicking at all. You wouldn't pay full price for a car that had a big scratch down the side of it.

Id give him the opportunity to rectify everything that's needing fixed if he refuses then I wouldn't be paying full price. Have a tiler quote for remedial works and deduct from final bill. Furnish him with invoice from tiler and deducted payment. Fair terms in my book.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

@georgechi - Tiling is a finishing trade and as such the tolerances are strict.
As previously advised and to answer your Thread title - Acceptable tiling? - NO!
A decent Clerk of Works would condem most of your highlighted concerns so don't worry about trying to find standards of acceptance.
If it's chipped, it should be out.
If it's not level, it should be out.
If adhesive shows through grout, it should be removed.
If there are holes in grout, they should be filled.
Etc.
There are too many Jacks who think they can tile, but we are only looking at the surface! What preparation was done? What tanking around shower? What adhesive? Did he tile straight onto the plaster and how long had it been dry?
Can you look at that every day?

 

[Tilerdurden]

@georgechi - Tiling is a finishing trade and as such the tolerances are strict.
As previously advised and to answer your Thread title - Acceptable tiling? - NO!
A decent Clerk of Works would condem most of your highlighted concerns so don't worry about trying to find standards of acceptance.
If it's chipped, it should be out.
If it's not level, it should be out.
If adhesive shows through grout, it should be removed.
If there are holes in grout, they should be filled.
Etc.
There are too many Jacks who think they can tile, but we are only looking at the surface! What preparation was done? What tanking around shower? What adhesive? Did he tile straight onto the plaster and how long had it been dry?
Can you look at that every day?

Pretty sure not one wall saw a straight edge prior to installation.

 

[georgechi]

Pretty sure not one wall saw a straight edge prior to installation.

I may be misunderstanding your statement, but the work contracted was to redo the whole bathroom, including walls, plastering etc. If the walls were not in a proper state for tiling, that's something he should have corrected.

 

[georgechi]

Thank you all for your feedback.

I'll raise all my concerns with the builder on Tuesday. It annoys me that people don't hold themselves to a high standard and makes me feel like I'm the bad person for raising these problems.

Now the issue is, if this is his best work and can't possibly do better, do I ask him to contract a tiler himself? I do feel bad for all the wasted work and materials and getting a tiler myself doesn't seem fair.

 

[Tile Shop]

Thank you all for your feedback.

I'll raise all my concerns with the builder on Tuesday. It annoys me that people don't hold themselves to a high standard and makes me feel like I'm the bad person for raising these problems.

Now the issue is, if this is his best work and can't possibly do better, do I ask him to contract a tiler himself? I do feel bad for all the wasted work and materials and getting a tiler myself doesn't seem fair.

Don't feel bad. If thats the best he could do then he should have held his hands up and said he was no good at tiling before wasting all the materials. That would have been you're opportunity to get a professional.

But still, give him a chance to see if he can fix it. If he says no, he needs to be paying you back to cover the remedial costs. Whether it be removing a few tiles or stripping them all of.

 

[Tilerdurden]

I may be misunderstanding your statement, but the work contracted was to redo the whole bathroom, including walls, plastering etc. If the walls were not in a proper state for tiling, that's something he should have corrected.

Point I was making. He has failed to take adequate steps to ensure a high quality job. Earlier images showing where has packed out tiles with adhesive demonstrates that.

I certainly wouldn't be recommending him for his tiling "expertise". It is a shame that you've been let down like this. That's the inherent difference between a tiler and a "tiler" a tiler knows how much tolerance he has in terms of flatness of substrates a "tiler" will wing it.

Certainly not bad for raising any issues with any tradesman who you're paying to carry out works. I'm sure if you were underperforming at work there would be some kind of procedure to address this. It's no different. You have hired him and put trust in him to carry out a job which he has assured you he is qualified to do. Clearly there's been some misinformation here. Standard procedure in terms of you hiring someone else and deducting from his bill if he's not able to rectify himself. At the end of the day it's whatever you are willing to accept.

 

[Olde Navy]

Not sure if thats an external corner shot (and if so its location in the room) but I've seen those with extremely sharp edges, and rarely uniformly neat - would those experts on here suggest a trim or 90 degree joint ?

 

[Terry the tiler]

Yeah hate to say it but I agree, rough as it comes. The man has no pride in his work. And shouldnt class himself as a tiler. He didn't advertise as handy man did he you know the type can lay bricks plaster do basic plumbing, electrical tiling and roofing.......never trust them guys.

 

[ttt tiling]

Funny thing is , tiling is probably the hardest trade to get right , but second to painting and decorating , the one that most people.ignore or take for granted.
Tiling is the face of any project , not an afterthought , when will people learn