Discuss Please help a Newbie in the British & UK Tiling Forum area at TilersForums.com.

L

LesD

I have just had a look at the BAL datasheet about Microflex and see that it is not impervious to water so is it good enough with the Kerafix plus Latex Plus adhesive that I have to stick the tiles on with?

Data sheet extract follows:

When grouting in areas where a power shower is installed ensure a Class D2 to BS EN 12004: 2001 water resistant adhesive, such as BAL White Star has been used. BAL Microflex grouts are water resistant but are not impervious to water,
 
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T

TJ Smiler

Is BAL good enough???? It's the finest in the tiling world lol. Get that Microflex up on them walls!!!! you wont get any problems mate.

Unfortunately you cant grout the gap between the bottom of the bottom tiles and the shower tray, you should ideally leave a 2-3mm (no bigger) gap and then Silicon it. Buy a Silicon by BAL or Mapei, beleive me the quality ones make a huge difference with ease of application, plus they are the dogs nuts!!!

I know it's a horrible job, but if you get yourself a small bowl of water mixed with fairy liquid and plenty of rags to wipe your finger on, at the end of the nozzle you have to cut an angled piece off before you start. Make this slit very small (and i mean very small) cut it as close to the end as you can, apply it very smoothly and evenly along the area to do (don't panic and don't rush) once it's applied leave it for about 1 minute.

Then dip your finger (i always use my index finger) in your bowl of water and fairy liquid and starting in one corner run your finger along the Silicon bead. DO NOT PUSH YOUR FINGER INTO IT JUST VERY GENTLY AND LIGHTLY RUN YOUR FINGER ALONG IT.

Imagine trying to get a bit of dirt out of a babies eye........ well thats how gentle you should be with your finger lol!!! Dont run your finger along to much of the bead in one go, you should smoothly take your finger off after about 6 inches or so, wipe the excess off (if any) then dip your figer in the bowl again then smoothly start to run your finger along the beading where you left off last time.

You should end up with a great looking Silicon seal, if you find you have made a bit of a mess in certain little areas just wipe them up straight away DO NOT ALLOW IT TO DRY FIRST.

Remember: good quality sanitary Silicon again BAL,WEBBER, MAPEI all of these are great. This really does make a difference!!! Very small angled cut at the end of the nozzle (don't cut too much off) the less you cut off the better Les. Fairy liquid with water (this will give you finger a nice grease up) gentle, smooth and making sure the Silicon is spreading nicely onto the the tiles and the shower tray and no gaps are appearing (if they do mate just squirt another little bit of Silicon over it and blend it in with the rest) cover small areas at a time, RELAX, ENJOY IT AND MAKE US ALL AT THE TILE FORUMS VERY PROUD OF YOU lol!!!

Good luck matey


TJ
 
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L

LesD

My thanks again TJ for such a helpful reply.

I bought Mapei Silicon Sealer when I got my grey Keraquick and Latex Plus I was going to use this round the bifold door if the time ever comes to fit it.

I am embarrassed to say in this company that my progress today was to cut, shape and stick the three tiles to go above the tray on the back wall of the recess plus sticking on a couple of others outside the shower area that came away when the buttresses for the old door came down. Oh and hours of scraping off old Silicon sealant! As it had to be done I guess that's progress too.

The three I have stuck at the back of the shower have grout lines that are as clean as I can get them and the gap between them and the tray is a matchstick width as that is what I used to stand them off with. Might be a tad less than 2 mm but it's done now!

Having these, as clean as I can get them, grout lines how far in will the bead of Silicon go? My tiles are 8/9 mm thick!
 
T

TJ Smiler

Hi Mate, it's all progress at the end of the day.

A matchstick size gap is perfect, don't worry about how far under the tile your Silicon goes just concentrate more on making sure it spreads nicely from the shower tray to the tile, as long as there is no area that water could slip through everything is fine.

Put your small cut nozzle hole gently against the gap, pull the trigger of your gun and move along the entire length in one go (just do one side at a time though mate, not the whole shower tray in one hit then wipe off as this would be far too much for you to handle, for now anyway) i generally do the back first (apply, spread, clean if needed) then i will do both sides one at a time.

Make sure you grout up first and try not to get any grout in the bottom gap that you will be siliconing, if you get just little bits in don't worry about it but avoid too much.

Also make sure the grout is completely dry (if you can leave over night thats great) and make sure the area your siliconing is completely clean and dust free and bone dry.

And don't make the mistake of thinking it's a 5 minute job, take all the time in the world over it cos this is the part that brings the whole job together.

Keep me posted mate and if you got any more q's just ask. I'll keep cecking in on this post.

TJ
 
L

LesD

You really are the man TJ, helping a complete stranger. I am so grateful to you Faithhealer and everyone who has given their time and knowledge to help me with this project.

I reckoned after I mentioned my slow progress today that I would mix another pot of Keraquick and do a bit more. Result - I got another five tiles on. Easy ones straight up where my old buttresses came out but everyone done is one less to do.:thumbsup:

Your help is great.

A description like the one on the Silicon bead of how to grout would be appreciated but there's no hurry I haven't even got any BAL Microflex at the moment and grouting is a day or three away as it's back to work tomorrow for a rest! :smilewinkgrin:
 
T

TJ Smiler

Pleasure mate

When it comes to grouting, make sure your tile joints are very clear especially towards the surface of the tile, it's best to keep these clean as your tiling with a damp sponge but if you have let it dry don't worry just gently run a stanley knife or similar down th joints.

You are only trying to clear the edges of the tile so your grout has a good base to stick too (so don't waste your time trying to get the adhesive out that you can see at the back of tile if you look in the joint, YOU ONLY NEED THE EDGES CLEAR AND MAKE SURE NOTHING IS PROTRUDING OUT THE SURFACE OTHERWISE IT WILL SHOW WHEN YOU HAVE FINISHED)

Mix the grout by hand (put a surgicle glove on or rubber glove is also good) get yourself a normal sized bucket and put about half inch of water in it (oh yeah make sure the bucket is spotless) slowly poor your grout into the water, not too much just a little more than the amount of water you put in.

Now mix it up untill all lumps have gone and its very runny, now just keep adding a little of the powder (say about half a pint at a time) to that mix, keep mixing it up untill all lumps and bumps are gone in the grout.

You should repeat the above until you reach a consistency that is like a very thick custard or like errrmm you ever scooped the ice cream out of a mcdonalds milkshake and sucked it off the end of your straw?? well it should be something like that lol... you want it so you can work it on the walls rather than rushing around with your grout float trying to spread it before it falls off. Hope that makes sense mate. it will look nice and smooth and shouldn't be moulding into clumpy balls or anything.

Leave it to sit in the bucket for 10 mins to let all air bubbles come out (make sure no dirt gets in the bucket) after 10 mins give it one final stir to liven it back up. Then get a good bit of it on your float (just scoop it out, no need to load it up with a bucket trowel or anything) once you got a good bit on slap it on the wall (i normally slap it right where the 4 corners of the tiles meet) from there you should be moving it around with your float making sure that you are really working it into every part of every grout joint.

No cheating now and thinking it will be ok!!! you should be sweating!! or at least breathing slightly heavy, grouting is hard work Les so expect to get tired. If your not tired then your not working it the joints enough. Don't cover to big an area at one time you should be looking to grout up about a metre square or slightly less at a time. Once you happy (or not cos grouting really is horrible) that you have covered all the grout joints in your chosen area run your float over it again to collect as much of the loose grout as possible (don't worry about getting it all off, just whatever comes of when you run you float back over it) oh yeah, don't dig the edges of your grout float into the tile joints just run your float in a sort of semi circle motion across the tiles working thick lumps of grout into the joints, letting the grout go into the joint and oozing out as you put pressure on it (this is where you should be sweating and cursing and swearing that your going to beat the next person up you see lol) keep doing this as you move your float along until that particular piece of grout has been used up.

Now leave it to sit on the walls for between 5 - 15 mins depending on your room temp. If it's a very hot day or your room is particulaly (however u spell it) hot then just leave it a few mins. Now with a clean damp sponge (tilers spong should be able to pick a few of theese up in topps or somewhere. not car washing spong!!) work the grout around the wall in a figure of 8 motion going gently over the joints (your not trying to wipe the grout off at this point you are just working it all around the area so the joints look like they are smooth and equall, don't worry about the grout on the face of the tiles just yet just work the whole lot round as one) any little holes that you see just fill with a loos bit of grout from anywhere (as long as its clen)

Now get a different clean TILERS sponge and rinse it out in another bucket of very clean watter. Now you need to clean everything off the tiles, wipe your sponge accross the area that you have just grouted, only do one wipe from top to bottom or bottom to top and if you can do this going in a diagonal motion accross the tiles thats great (but sometimes you will have to go in straight motion cos of the adjoining wall or something, when you do don't push to hard otherwise you wil pull the grout out the joints and and it will look rubbish when your done) what should be happining as you run sponge over the tiles is all the grout thats on the faces of the tiles should be coming off and the joints should also tidy themselves up) remember you are only doing one wipe with a gentle bit of force in one direction. Then turn your sponge over and wipe another section with this clean side of the sponge.

Once you have done TWO wipes with your sponge give it a good rinse out in your bucket then do it all over again until all the grout is off the tiles and they are gleaming at you.

Les, its fairly important that you work fast cos all the time the grout mixture in you bucket is going off.

Now do the whole process over and over and over again until you are completed or your grout runs out. If you have to mix more grout try to get it to the consistency as the first mixture (this is why its good to mix it by hand)

Once the whole shower is done, stand back and think to yourself that your glad you never took up tiling for a living :lol:!!!!!!!!!!

After about half hour or so you will notice a haze of dust coming on the surface of the tiles, you can either keep going over your tiles with a clean damp sponge using the one wipe system until it no longer appears or you can do what i do which is to leave it for a couple fo hours then come back with an old t-shirt (clean and lint free, so no little bits of fluff go in your joints) and polish the walls with it. You better wear a face mask cos this does get very dusty but i think its worth it cos it really does bring the tiles up to a beautiful shine. Go easy over the joints but don't be scared to put a bit of pressure on it either cos it would be pretty solid by now. Whilst you are wiping it over if you notice any of the grout in the joints looking rough or spilling over the edge of tile just run your finger with the cloth arond it over that joint until it looks neat to you.

Oh yeh that reminds me when you are initially sponging the grout into the tiles (the first sponge over) try to make sure that the grout does not spill over the front of the tile, try and get it so it sits just below or level with the tile. Nothing uglier than grout spilling over the edge of a tile.

If you gop have a look at you tube you might find they have a small video or something on there of a PROFESSIONAL grouting up and that should put a lot of what i said into a clearer contaxt for you.

Once again mate, just relax, take your time and enjoy it. And remember grouting is hard work you should be aching the whole time lol

Good luck mate and please keep us posted, if you got any photos let us have them please as there are a fair few new tilers on here who would be really interested to see how you got on.

Thanks mate

TJ
 
L

LesD

TJ, What more could anyone ask for expect your goodself to do the grouting. I reckoned I needed to join a Gym to get the tray in but getting fitter may be necessary before I start grouting! :smilewinkgrin:

This evening I have only managed to make four more fitted tiles but as they say a picture is worth a 1000 words so one is attached.

The three at the back are the one I got stuck on yesterday. The two either side are just posing for the picture. :smilewinkgrin:

There not enough room in front to get down for a more direct shot, sorry about that.
 

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L

LesD

TJ,

I did a bad thing when fixing the tiles on the left hand wall of my shower recess.:yikes:

This new bottom row tiles along both the left hand and right hand side walls have to slope in just a little to be comfortably over the edge of the shower tray. You may be able to see what I mean in the last picture I posted. Well I inadvertently let the sloping tile come to far forward so that it prevented the vertical channel for the bi-fold door from from seating back against the wall properly just for the last three inches or so at the bottom. It was done last thing one evening when really I should have stopped earlier because my concentration was flagging so please don't SHOUT at me again, I feel bad enough already. :smilewinkgrin:

This afternoon I decided to see if I could do something about it and painstakingly I have removed the surface of the offending tile in the area that was fouling the door frame and now it fits back nice and snug where it should have been first time round. I have posted a picture to show what it is I am on about.

You can see that behind the door frame channel there is going to be some unglazed tile that I fear will absorb water so I was wondering if there was anything that I could coat it with to save the day. I was thinking if all else fails to give it a good buttering with Silicon sealant as the door frame channel is screwed into place but is there a better alternative?

I went to Topps Tiles on my way home from work earlier this afternoon and bought my BAL Microflex grout and some BAL white Silicon sealant to go between the tray and the bottom row of tiles as you recommended.

So the next job is to rake back some of the old grout and see how I get on. If this is doable I might just re-grout the whole shower area but if it is too demanding I just may not be up to that challenge!
 

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L

LesD

I guess by the lack of replies that it was the wrong question to ask you guys and I think I have found the right answer myself.

I removed the rest of the offending bit of tile and replaced it with a thinner properly glazed piece of white tile. As this bit of white tile will be completely behind the upright channel of the bi-fold door frame it won't be seen and being glazed should have a waterproof face too. I have stuck it in with Keraquick and will use the BAL microflex grout and Silicon sealant where appropriate. A picture is attached.
 

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T

TJ Smiler

Hi Les, Sorry mate i have been away for a few d ays. If its sitting behind your shower door runner then it's fine just make sure it's grouted properly and don't forget that when you run your Silicon seal down the shower screen to make it water tight you do it on the outside only!!!

Good luck to you mate and i hope it lasts, any probs drop a post in

TJ
 
L

LesD

Hi TJ,

I guessed you were out and about. I spent a couple or three evenings routing out as much of the old grout from the upper parts of the walls that I could and it has paid off because this evening I have managed to grout the back wall. I would have liked to have done all three but time and energy ran out. You said it was hard work and would make me sweat and you were right on both counts. Despite trying to follow your instruction but I think tackling 2 sq metres instead of the one at a time that you recommended and possibly slightly over sponging, the finish is not as good as I had hoped it would be. It is well grouted and the joint are full and if I am honest the appearance is better than my previous attempts at grouting it's just that my asperations were aiming higher. I will post a picture tomorrow if you promise not to fall about laughing too much! :smilewinkgrin:

I started at the bottom and worked to the top but by the time I reached the top the bottom had gone off a bit so the sponging was not as easy down there. The top was better and it shows in the appearance. Maybe the next two walls will be an improvement with the practice I have had tonight, well here's hoping!

BTW I scraped out the right hand side of the little bit of white tile that will be behind the door frame so that it will be grouted with the microflex not Keraquick.

Why not put Silicon all the way across behind the door frame uprights?
You say do the outside edge only. I know this is a must for the bottom for drainage purposes but what's the reason with the uprights?
 
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T

TJ Smiler

Hi Les doing the uprights is what we all do (or should be doing anyway) and it offers more protection, if any water gets through it and slowly over time trickles down the edge of your shower tray and under your floor, give it a few years and you will have to replace the whole lot again, but if you do it right the first time you can have it for the rest of your life without any probs....... when your one or two pushes away from a climax why stop :smilewinkgrin: the same aplies to your shower area lol

Do the outside only so any build up of water or condensation that builds up behind it can run down the upright and back into the shower tray.

Look forward to seeing the pics mate AND STOP RUSHING!!!! ONE SQUARE METRE AT A TIME :incazzato:

TJ
 

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Which tile adhesive brand did you use most this year?

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