Please help, I made a screw up...

[tileboy]

Hey guys....I have a number of picsI took today which I'm going to load ASAP. I'm working Saturday morning so as soon as I get a chance I will load them and you guys can all see. You won't believe how it turned out, or rather what the client response was when we discussed it. Give me till tomorrow lads and I'll reply again with the details...

Thanks for all the interest...
Tileboy

 

[Colour Republic]

leave us hanging why don't you!

 

[Verona]

leave us hanging why don't you!

Yes, what a cliff hanger!!! :lol:

 

[tileboy]

leave us hanging why don't you!

Ha ha, sorry mate it's passed 12am here and I'm in bed already....Camera is outside in the car, ha ha. I'm sure once I load the pics you will see what I was getting at a bit better than the original pics I loaded.

 

[Verona]

Ha ha, sorry mate it's passed 12am here and I'm in bed already....Camera is outside in the car, ha ha. I'm sure once I load the pics you will see what I was getting at a bit better than the original pics I loaded.

Phew - good to hear. LOL

 

[Versa-tile]

Sorry mate but there is only one way to sort it and thats to find out where you have run out of level and redo it.
That cut that you say is hardly noticable well.....sorry again but a blind man on a galloping horse could see that from 10 miles away. I am sure buider and everyone else will notice.
Do yourself a favour and sort it properly....this is the start of you career, dont start by getting a bad rep.
As for the floor...........sorry again looks awful to me.

I have to agree, they both look gash to me, sorry tileboy.

 

[tileboy]

is it me or did tile boyboy mention tiling out of a corner with a whole tile as advised by his teacher due to the focal point being behind the door:yikes:
as you open it check previous posts imo thats why its out so much

Hi again...

If you're thinking that I used the wall itself as a level or assumed the level of the wall then you'd be wrong. I assumed the lines coming off the adjacent wall that I already had tiled. I then used a spirit level to keep the whole deal straight. The focal point isn't behind the door, it's the first thing you see when you walk into the room. The swing of the door was changed so that when you open the door the first two things you see are that corner and the shower door, rather than the toilet...

I've labelled the pics I took and I'm about to upload them....Then I'll speill the beans of what the outcome was!!!

 

[Colour Republic]

Ok you've only just started to upload, but your first mistake is as follows:

spacers are not square (well most aren't), so you cannot insert the spacer on it's side unless you are going to insert all the spacers on their side. I note in you first pic that some are on their side and others you have inserted the leg

 

[tileboy]

Ok you've only just started to upload, but your first mistake is as follows:

spacers are not square (well most aren't), so you cannot insert the spacer on it's side unless you are going to insert all the spacers on their side. I note in you first pic that some are on their side and others you have inserted the leg

Really? Oh my word...I thought these things are made on a production line and moulded to be the same size no matter whether you use the leg or on their sides...I've finished uploading the rest of the pics mate to my profile album

 

[tileboy]

Ok so here's the deal guys...

Early the next morning on my way to site, as I figured and as you all figured, the client phones me and asks me why the top right of the room is not level.

A bit of detail originally I left out here on the forum was that when I reached up over the door the client asked me to please start on the other side of the room as they need to have the area around the toilet tiled and grouted so that her builder can install the toilet. I too then have to please tile around the area where the vanity is to go because that part needs to be grouted and done as well so that the cupboard people can come in and install the vanity where the basin will sit. So I stopped tiling around the door up to where I had and then continued where I was asked to tile.

So once I had tiled this, I had a certain level going around the room upto thus far. If I had to stop after doing just those bits and go back to the wall then I'd have had the mismatch somewhere else. At that point I had no idea that a mismatch was going to happen so I didn't think anything of it.

Anyway, I explained to the client that it's one or both of the following two things that happened. I said that when one tiles up and over something like a door, one should tile up both sides and finish at the top of what you're tiling over because if there is any mismatch then you only have to hassle about with a few tiles to fix your problem. I also said that the second thing is that I was asked to stop tiling around the door and continue around the other side of the room to make ready for the vanity and the toilet. She seemed happy with my explanation and she said that to be honest it's not really that noticeable and also that once the shower glass is in and once the coving is installed it will be easy to forget about so she's happy for me to just leave it, it's not a train smash.

I thought that was very nice of her to say and then when I got to site I measured the mismatch and it wasn't 15mm as I originally thought it's actually only 7mm. She came home after work and we chatted about it again and she had a good giggle saying that she's happy the mismatch is only there and not somewhere more focal, to which I agreed and that was the end of that.

So at the end of it all, my reputation is in tact 100%. I have a happy customer, that's happy for me to continue to the 2nd bathroom and a whole lot of stress has been taken off my shoulders. I feel much better guys...

I'd appreciate though if you could try help me understand where I went wrong. See I wonder if it IS above the door where I lost it all because if I look at the room it seems to tell me another story but I also get easily confused because through all of my work that I do I'm still learning. I rarely walk into a job feeling 100% confident. It sometimes feels as if my training is failing me....I know I have my manual and I can refer back to it but sometimes under stress things don't make sense and then I stop and sit and think (as opposed to panic) but I'd very much like it to be able to walk into a room and just figure everyting out without any issues. Make no mistake though, I know the theory, it's just hard for me to apply 100% what I've learnt at the training centre in the UK. Now that I'm not in the UK anymore...I don't have my veteran tiling friends to call in and help me understand, it would be great if I had access to the people I did when I was still in the UK.

So there, I guess I know in time things will get better but I wish the learning curve wasn't so steep see cuz every job costs me money....School fees I think they call it ha ha ha!!!

So at the end of it all everything's ok...The butt cheeks are clapping hands though that I won't have the same problem with the other bathroom I have to do for that client. Same tiles it will be as the first. 3 X (300 x 600) from floor up, then travertine border, then 150 X 600 up to the ceiling...

Over and out for now matey's...

Tileboy )

 

[doug boardley]

to satisfy your own curiousity, make a staff, and pick a datum that you know to be level the full perimeter of the room, then place your staff from this datum at various places in the room, maybe this will show where you've messed up

 

[stevee]

well done mate ,if the client and you are happy, not nice the amount of stress this sortof thing can cause when your starting out on your learning curve.

as for knowing where u went wrong, if colour rep is right about your spacers turned different ways ,i would think that would easily cause 7mm over a few rows,not sure i wouldnt of done the same thing myself either...... good luck mate ,steve

 

[Colour Republic]

You’ve just lost your line as you've gone round the room, a spinning laser level is better for setting a datum around the room, as if you're not careful you can raise or lower a laser level as you turn it to face another wall. Both will work, you just have to be a bit more careful and recheck everything. 7mm is very easy to lose around a room even more so with those tiles, now remember my other post about how just 1mm difference can grow in to 3mm or 4mm over the length of a tile...

This picture shows 2 x 2mm spacers, one flat the other turned to its side... look at the difference

 

[DHTiling]

Worked out ok then....

But in future...once you start to tile a room... do not let no others trades in...unless it is holding you up....You are the tiler and need to do it your way and not allow other work to go on that will interfere in your setting out nad keeping your datums level...

A lesson learned and i hope a good one...

 

[tileboy]

You’ve just lost your line as you've gone round the room, a spinning laser level is better for setting a datum around the room, as if you're not careful you can raise or lower a laser level as you turn it to face another wall. Both will work, you just have to be a bit more careful and recheck everything. 7mm is very easy to lose around a room even more so with those tiles, now remember my other post about how just 1mm difference can grow in to 3mm or 4mm over the length of a tile...

This picture shows 2 x 2mm spacers, one flat the other turned to its side... look at the difference
View attachment 3298

Thank you very much mate. It's very cool of you to take the time to take pics and explain...

Ok so what you're saying is that for the next bathroom I should either put my spacers in flat or use the leg. Not a mix. Ok, will do!!!

Somedays it feels as if I wish I can redo my training just so it's all fresh in my head.

I've just had to quote for a job worth 25K (thats in South African rands) it's for 250 squares of 600 X 600 porcelain. These tiles are MASSIVE. I've not worked with tiles so big before. I need the work though so I want to do it but this job is going to be beyond complicated. The house is on many levels and the 600 X 600 needs to go everywhere in the house, up and down the stairs too which in my mind means that starting from the basement up the stairs into the welcome area up more stairs into the lounge and kitchen area up some more stairs into the bedroom area and up a different set of stairs to the right of the kitchen into a study.

SO....big tiles, many stairs. Then 48 squares of natural stone for the verandas outside, plus another 23 squares of glass mosaic for the showers and the kitchen splashback. Luckily for mosaic's I don't think twice, I'm a Bisazza trained mosaic tiler. I'm registered with Bisazza UK and Bisazza Italy as an official installer so mosaics I don't struggle with.

It's big (not done before) and technical jobs like this one I've just quoted for that confuses the life out of me.

I have NO IDEA how to set out for a job like this. It's not just one room it's basically the entire house from the basement up all the stairs into all the other rooms...Maybe I should just set out the basement properly and then following the lines created by the basement run that up the stairs into the other rooms and let the cuts fall where they may??

There are corners, twists, turns, doors, more corners it's not a square roomed house...Setting out a dry run won't even work because even though the house is HUGE it's cramped inside so muchos cutting is no doubt gonna have to happen...Aaaah, new cutter investment it seems. My industrial cutter can only cut tiles up to 520mm. Uuughhh....Tools, tools, tools.

I need a bloody rotozip too which you don't get in South Africa!!! What a pain, cuz there's no way I'm going to cut 600 X 600 size tiles to shape around the pillars in this house by using a wet cutter to start and then nipping the rest, it's gonna look pants....A rotozip wil make a PERFECT circle!!!

Anyway....I'm kinda stressed out about the next few months, cuz the learning curve is getting steeper!!!

Tileboy!!!

 

[surflaur]

What a read! This mystery will live forever! Lol

 

[Colour Republic]

I hope you're not running before you can walk, that is a big job even for an experienced tiler. TBH I wouldn't go near it until you have the basics all dealt with.

If it goes wrong the financial implications on such a job are huge. I understand you need the work but if it goes wrong, it will go spectacularly wrong

I mean this in a good way; please don't think I’m putting you down. But the quality of you work needs to be raised before you start working on any large jobs or with expensive tiles

Be lucky

 

[tileboy]

I hope you're not running before you can walk, that is a big job even for an experienced tiler. TBH I wouldn't go near it until you have the basics all dealt with.

If it goes wrong the financial implications on such a job are huge. I understand you need the work but if it goes wrong, it will go spectacularly wrong

I mean this in a good way; please don't think I’m putting you down. But the quality of you work needs to be raised before you start working on any large jobs or with expensive tiles

Be lucky

Duly noted mate. I think I'll do just that. It's gonna sting a bit saying no to a large chunk of money like that, maybe I should accept anyway and sell the job to a contractor more experienced than myself...That way it will seem as if it's my company that did the work. Plus then I can learn while I'm at it!!! Nice!!!

Good idea?

 

[smurf21]

Oh my god.... you struggled a little with the bathroom (by the way defo lost your level accros doorway imo) a simple strip above the door into wall would have fixed the prob and left you feeling better about it accepted or not i could never have left it like that but thats just me.......(and probably 99.9% of all other tilers on the forums but way hey) But as far as this next job goes take my advice and get help from a more experienced fixer because if all your lines need to marry throughout the job and up the stairs just setting from the basement and going with the flow aint gonna cut it,this one needs allot of thought and setting out 600 x 600 porc aint very forgiving and it will cost you dearly if it goes **** up........GET HELP....

 

[Colour Republic]

Duly noted mate. I think I'll do just that. It's gonna sting a bit saying no to a large chunk of money like that, maybe I should accept anyway and sell the job to a contractor more experienced than myself...That way it will seem as if it's my company that did the work. Plus then I can learn while I'm at it!!! Nice!!!

Good idea?

very good idea! although bare in mind that your price might have been cheap and a contractor would have charged more so they may not want to take the job on at your price

 

[tileboy]

Oh my god.... you struggled a little with the bathroom (by the way defo lost your level accros doorway imo) a simple strip above the door into wall would have fixed the prob and left you feeling better about it accepted or not i could never have left it like that but thats just me.......(and probably 99.9% of all other tilers on the forums but way hey) But as far as this next job goes take my advice and get help from a more experienced fixer because if all your lines need to marry throughout the job and up the stairs just setting from the basement and going with the flow aint gonna cut it,this one needs allot of thought and setting out 600 x 600 porc aint very forgiving and it will cost you dearly if it goes **** up........GET HELP....

Well, it's not as simple as just a strip as you put it. Trust me mate. I've taken everything that everyone has said here and I've looked at the wall and at the end of the day whether you want to agree or not, the only way to correct the issue is to redo the whole bathroom. Logistically thats not possible. If you could stand in the bathroom with me you will see what I mean. Also, the client suggested I leave it that way, it wasn't my suggestion. I'm sorry but irrelevant of what anyone thinks (and here's where I stick to my guns) if the client says pink, then pink it is so I won't feel bad because I know we discussed it honestly and openly and it's got nothing to do with pride. It's called understanding and we understand each other.

As for the large job, I think I will call one of the larger contractors I know and maybe I can learn from him how to do such a large complicated job!!!

:smilewinkgrin:

 

[smurf21]

Noted and understood.......Good luck with all your future endeavours my friend.

 

[smurf21]

But on another note. why come on and ask for help and advice ifyour not gonna take it..

 

[Deleted member 1779]

What a marathon post......

There are corners, twists, turns, doors, more corners it's not a square roomed house...Setting out a dry run won't even work because even though the house is HUGE it's cramped inside so muchos cutting is no doubt gonna have to happen...Aaaah, new cutter investment it seems. My industrial cutter can only cut tiles up to 520mm. Uuughhh....Tools, tools, tools.

I need a bloody rotozip too which you don't get in South Africa!!! What a pain, cuz there's no way I'm going to cut 600 X 600 size tiles to shape around the pillars in this house by using a wet cutter to start and then nipping the rest, it's gonna look pants....A rotozip wil make a PERFECT circle!!!

Just got one thing to add.... Dont forget your drill bits!

 

[tommyzooom]

As myself and others advised you to replace the tiles above the door it was because your explanation and the first pictures seemed to suggest that the tiles lower down on both sides of the door were lining up OK,(lifes too short to read it all again) It is now quite clear that your lines have been dropping slightly as you go round the room, A new spirit level is your first purchase and do as I do, turn the level round for each wall

Glad your client is happy