Please help, I made a screw up...

[Deleted member 1779]

I made a bit of a schoolboy error myself in the past.

Bought two colours of 600x300 tiles. Stone. And Black.

The stone were 599mm and the Black were 602mm.

When we fitted them they rose higher each time. We could have taken some off each black tile but my tiler was tired and wasnt that bothered !

To this day the white lines of the black tiles are rising higher than the left hand stone tiles.. But I live with it.

 

[andy-p]

Having spent half my life reading this thread id like to add something , its crucial in my mind to use a quality laser (like the autocross laserliner or similar) especially when fitting large formats as the slightest out of level can cause big problems especially over larger areas, even with a good spirit level you can be out .. heres a pic of me using one in a floor area of 100m2 , the laser is on the right of the pic on the wall . the datum matched up 100% over the area , try that with a spirit level.. any way good luck tileboy and one last piece of advice try and hook up with an experienced fixer its the best way to learn..

 

[Colour Republic]

What is that room used for Andy? keeping animals? looks very interesting

 

[andy-p]

What is that room used for Andy? keeping animals? looks very interesting

dog kennels !! and it was blimmin freeziing , the wind howled through the apertures for the outside runs.
there was 80m2 of white 6x6 wall tiles and 100m2 of floor tiles which the bloke got for £5m2 , they were different sizes tho hence the brickbond pattern. took 2 of us 5days and it took us one day to grout the floor , forgot to bring my kd washboy too so that was a bit of a chore , it was a nice little cash earner though!!

 

[White Room]

Me and my mate done a subway quite a few years ago, no laser used he had a old theodolite, not every bodys cup of tea but done the trick

 

[cornish_crofter]

Whilst we are on the subject of laser levels, I have a cheapie rotating laser level from B&Q that I finally tried out on that wet room I did a few months back.

I was actually quite impressed. I took all my levels to make sure that the datum line was spot on and it actually was.

Having said that, I truly believe that each level should be checked, not once, or twice, but 4 times! That's twice in each direction.

Check the level, turn your level around, check it again then repeat.

That way, if your level is out then you'll know straight away.

Also, you've got to mark your datum all the way around the room when you set out. When you're going up either side of a door like that you've got to check each course as you go either side of the door. That way, you'll notice as soon as you lose the level and you can put it right.

 

[Turkish]

YES!!!! I`VE FINISHED READING THIS!!!!!!!!! (interesting though):lol::lol::lol:

Turkish

 

[thevinnyofoz]

Wow what a read !

I wish you well Tileboy but I do hope you have insurence when you take this next job on.

Best of luck

 

[STINGRAY30]

feel for you lad. am a new tiler and scared of making a big mistake!!!:yikes:

keep at it!! we will all make it in the end!!!!:20:

 

[Fekin]

YES!!!! I`VE FINISHED READING THIS!!!!!!!!! (interesting though):lol::lol::lol:

Turkish

It became an obsession that had be to seen through to the end I felt.

 

[Verona]

feel for you lad. am a new tiler and scared of making a big mistake!!!:yikes:

keep at it!! we will all make it in the end!!!!:20:

Nothing wrong in being a new tiler - as long as you keep learning. (Just like driving a car - not exactly like an expert just because you got the licence, right!)

No offence at all, but I was just thinking that you could show the picture to customers could prove to them why the prices are what they are - to them who wants a bargain. They pay for a professional skill and should appreciate it. Can only imagine how it would have looked like if DIY... (or done by myself as not a tiler :lol

Tileboy, good job that you worked it out and dared ask for advice! Good on you and good luck with your jobs in future!

 

[dewaltdavey]

even if the the level at 3 tiles high is bang on you should continue to check if it is plumb and level as you go spacers wont save your life they could be slightly even by half a mm be different sizes and that could knock your lines out - by 15mm something has went wrong if it has to be fixed try pinging a line from the left hand wall to the right hand above the door frame and work off that as you have big cuts either side of the door and to walls it shouldnt show as much as the jump betwen heights across your vertical strip

 

[MTM Tiles]

I have been tiling 21 years City and Guilds and admire any one that asks for anothers advice or opinion . I do think your new levels may be at fault and I have employed tilers myself to work from my shop and would prefer a concientious slow tiler than a fast cocky one. During my City and Guilds we adopted the policy of checking the levels after 3 courses high (excesive but practical) we also had an instructor that would run a flat 5 pence piece over your work and if it stopped or fell off you had to do it again.I too am concientious and have followed the principles I was taught and although initialy I was slow and earned little. I now have a shop and am turning work away even in these difficult times, due to diligence and morals. I care about what I do and what my customers think.Stick with it learn from it correct it and move forward.

 

[tileboy]

Hi....a Quick check in to everyone to say many thanks again for the huge support. I think for this post it may have been that I found it hard to bring across the look of the room and as such I couldn't quite tie what was bein given as advice into what was actually capable.

Either way, I'm keen on furthering my tiling training. I'd like to get a bit more advanced, either that or redo my training in an attempt to cement in my brain what I was taught. Since doing my training in the UK in November 2008 I think the time it took me to find work (first job landed feb 09) kinda made things a bit hazy and in the end I had to reply on my handbook as well as common sense.

I am learning daily though which is great. I just wish we had the kind of standards in South Africa as you lot have in the UK. In comparison to every tiler I come across and know, I'm actually more qualified than any tiler you will meet here. Tilers in South Africa just aren't trained, they're tradesmen that have learnt over years and don't have the framework I do from my training. Technically I'm a very capable character, I know the theory well but somehow the application of the theory leaves my cortex somewhat frazzled. Ha ha!!!

I just wish I could walk into a room and without even blinking an eye I could look at it and figure it out in a heart beat without questioning myself the way I do. Problem is that tiling takes me SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO bloody long. G'zuz lads, I seriously do take long. It's like to the point where it's almost not even viable to be a tiler because I just take too bloody long. Now, as neat and detailed as I am doing silly things like making sure grout doesn't collect in corners when grouting, I'm shooting myself in the foot in such a big way because for instance this bathroom has taken me WEEKS!!! ok we had loads of public holidays in between but the point is that I really can't be spending SO much time on one job.

Its very annoying...

My lecturer always said to me that speed should NEVER EVER be your concern. Doing it right should be your number one concern. I think maybe I lack confidence, maybe thats it. Cuz when I walk into a bathroom I can talk my way into the job no problem but the actual doing of the job takes mind power...I struggle immensely with things like lipping and setting out and floor setting out, god forbid I ever have to set out geometrically unsquare floors or rooms. I know in time it will all come but I get the feeling that my school fees haven't even remotely been paid...

I'm a very practical person though and before getting in a panic I will sit down and try overcome the problem myself using a bit of initiative but I'm not always that lucky...Like the lipping issue. I just don't bloody understand why lipping happens when you have equal thickness tiles on an even surface...I mean WTF? Am I thick? Or is my addy bed thicker at one end than the other? If thats the case then my rubber mallet should sort that out with a few knocks by causing the extra addy to squelch out from the grout lines. This is a rather larger boil on an otherwise fairly small ***, ha ha ha (plz excuse my tone lads) LOL!!!

Setting out for me in the training centre made sense. I did it, I set out my room and I got it tiled neatly, straight, and all lovely looking. In practise though, setting out is awful for me. I really struggle with it. I measure get loads of numbers and measurements together, end up getting very confused and then possibly neglect the checklist of things you should check before laying tiles or while finding your first datum like for instance making sure you start tiling from the lowest end of the room so as to not have the possible tapering of the floor bother you at the end.

So you see guys...I'm such a keen learner, I love asking and I'm not bloody shy at all. I too, am not shy to admit my short falls and areas where I need to learn...I want to become a bloody wizz at what I do, and I want to eventually put a team of tilers together and teach them what I know so that like MTM Tiles, I too can talk with absolute confidence and run a shop....I have an advantage here because not a bloody soul in South Africa is trained to be a professional tiler, I am...Can anyone say: "MONEY" Ha ha, I know I'm onto a good thing here if I can just get my *** in gear and get more confident and start to tile faster with less hassle and less stress!!!

As usual you guys, I know I will get a mix of replies but either way I welcome the lot of you to pass on your 5p's worth...

Ta, and chat soon....

PS....Will load the finished article with pics and all once shower is in and vanity is in and bathroom is being used.

Over and out....

Tileboy

 

[jay]

hi speed will come with experiance and practice set out is critical always double check your work and try not to think to much about money you gota crawl before you walk good luck:8:

 

[Verona]

My lecturer always said to me that speed should NEVER EVER be your concern. Doing it right should be your number one concern. I think maybe I lack confidence, maybe thats it. Cuz when I walk into a bathroom I can talk my way into the job no problem but the actual doing of the job takes mind power...

Your lecturer were right I think and I'm sure you will be faster in 20 years time! :lol: If you rush the job you will regret the outcome and you may not have the recommendations you will survive on. (Can't be sure about that though if you are the only professional out there! LOL)

And for you being able to talk your way into any job is great! Some tradesmen (not just tilers) can do a fantastic job - and fast - if they lack sociable skills the customers may turn them down if they can't hear the confidence in them.

You hang on and you will see yourself improving the tiling.
As I have said before - imagine you took your driver licence and didn't drive for 3-4 months before you sat behind the wheel - that would have been dangerous for all of us! LOL

 

[Lenny]

There's enough for a novel there. What an epic read even for someone who knows nowt about tiling.

 

[LM Ceramics]

OMG what a long post im tired now just reading it ill make my point on it fair enough uv come on here admitted you REMOVED FOUL LANGUAGE and i admire that how you lost your level so much could be down to a few things i wasnt there so i dont know as mentioned though it does look pretty cack and in experienced has come into factor yes we have all messed up before ill admit it but i think you have bitten off well more than you can chew. You should start on small jobs first then work your way up the ladder not the other way round and as for the other work you ve got DEFINTLEY take someone with you.

There is alot of good tilers who havent got alot of work and especially work that your pulling in and it winds me up when someone inexperienced takes jobs and messes up like that.As for your customer accepting that work your really lucky to get away with that especially when there paying you. Personally i would have put it right despite whether the customer says its alright when she could have paid a decent tiler to do it right in the first place.

The lads on here have give some sound advice and are just saying what they see.

rant over:mad2::mad2:

 

[palmers_tiling]

Yeh mate as mentioned earlier...your tile looks smaller than the rest n that's what's throwing your lines out...pos that you cut a tile n put it amongst your full tiles, picked it up without knowing and used it??

 

[CJ]

These training centers are all well and good, and teach you the basics..........on plasterboards and flat ply flooring. We all know from experience that a great percentage of walls and floors are seldomly perfect.

Thats wot throws a lot of new tilers...........how and wot to do to get over the daily problems.

Your never ever to old to learn.
As for the speed issue............better to make a good job slowly.........than a bad job quickly.
Good luck to you tileboy.

 

[davy_G]

Im only reading this now, hopefully long after its been sorted.
Tip for the future. Start at one side of the door, or fixed object in a room and tile all the way around using the datum line from a laser. Anyhows even doing this ive been out a mm or so. I just loose it above the door where no-one looks when they meet.

Guess what I do every time Im in someone elses toilet....look above the door, just to see and you know what i see some right messes!

If you had managed to get this above the door you could have fudged it there as opposes to either side of the vertical mosaic where it shows up more.

 

[andy-p]

another thing id like to add to this saga is that you cant go on a 2 week tile course and call yourself a tiler , all the mistakes tileboy is making is down to sheer lack of experience , learn to walk before you run , dont take on any jobs you cant handle as you are cheating the customer, i was tiling for about 7 years before i totally went out on my own and even then still seeked advice from more experienced tilers...

 

[Mrs Tiler]

I'm slow but I am sure experience will speed me up in time

 

[jay]

with tiling you never stop learning. if you do give up:8:

 

[silver]

Hi Tileboy,
I am with Sir Ramic on this too......I realise you dont want to hear it but.........this is an advert for you and your work........

Laser levels look the part and the right ones do the business if looked after and correctly set up....but they also can be like the cheaper spirit levels. IE if the bubble is small in comparison to the level lines you will be able to "adjust" quite severely ( too much to enable continuity with grout lines) before you see it register......try it.

The small tile is noticable fella. Something the customer or a guest in their home (your next customer ?) will notice.

Its difficult to come to a clear conclusion from the pics but to me I see also a variation from left to right of the door. You mention a border too.

If you are 100% confident using another level that your first three rows are correct all around the room....Try a good 2m level if you havent already and the room allows it and go across from wall to wall too where you can .....

1) Have you missed / included / got different grout widths at the border to the right of the door in comparison to the left. I appreciate this wont be the 15mm difference you have found but it needs to be eliminated. Pushing the pegs / spacers all the way in or having them part way on certain tiles will also make a difference.

2) Did you mark out with your laser or have you just used this to try and check it ?

3) CDS has offered you some top advice re spirit levels.

4) If you tiled up the left hand side without doing the right hand side of the door in tandem to it...checking levels after every row.......this could be your problem.

If you used your level/s to mark out the room and they are correct....withthumbsup or without oops flipping it each length and the largest one you have is 1m, going from one side of the door around the room to the other side of the door. You may have unknowingly introduced a subtle fall or climb..it depends on your level acuracy (bubble size to level lines) and also your accuracy. Now its only visible when left of the door meets to right of the door.....I am guessing this may be what you have done ?

Its all a matter of methodical elimination.....this way you will find it....kick ya self in the butt.....and learn from it.
Everyone on here has seen this "step effect" in someones house at some point from other "peoples" work. Fridge freezers or bathroom walll cabinets tend to hide it !......so you aint alone. And I bet most have been explained as "your walls are out love" as the person is leaving clutching their money....never to be seen or recommended again.

But you want be better than that fella. You probably paid good money for your training, you take your time and want a good neat job , but the end result doesnt echo that with this job.
Take it it on the the chin and correct it. Dont panic into removing all the tiles !...check it out where your level wanders ...it will somewhere....and do what you have to do to correct it......it may not be as bad as you intitially thought.

We all admit a little artistic licence is now and then required and it is the tilers skill that introduces intentional slight undetectable gain / reductions in grout widths to get round problems with irregular size tiles etc....larger tiles make this a tad harder ! but.......... a couple of mm up / down over three tile lengths may be possible with your 3mm grout lines.

What would you prefer to be said about you by the customer to their friends

"Well these dont line up when you look close, he never said anything about that, I hope no one notices !!"
or
"He was really finicky with detail, they were slightly out in his opinion and next time we looked in he had taken some off to re do them.....he didnt charge us any extra and it meant an extra trip for him...but doesnt it look great!"

Its up to you..........I know what I would do mate.

Where are you from ......

Hope this helps fella.
Silver