Tiles falling off 12mm ply....

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

Have you read the thread DPF?

yes but its saying, in extreme moisture environments ,even the exposed surfaces of the glasroc h tile-backer should be tanked !! and the other BG boards are not recommended by them IE plasterboard !!

 

[The D]

This is what I have been saying for 2 days on this thread but what do I know I am just a tiler.

 

[Colour Republic]

yes but its saying, in extreme moisture environments ,even the exposed surfaces of the glasroc h tile-backer should be tanked !! and the other BG boards are not recommended by them IE plasterboard !!

at no point did I ever say use pb on its own. I did say however that tanked pb ceases to be just plasterboard. In the same way steel is a crap material to build cars from because it rusts but after bring coated it doesn't, but hang on.... carbon fibre is 5 times stronger than steel, it doesn't rust, it's lighter in weight and just as formable as steel... So why aren't all cars made from carbon fibre? Or is it that coated, painted steel is also a suitable material to use???

 

[charlie1]

Plasterboard is a fine substrate to tile too as long as its tanked Imo, yes there are better solution such as backer board but plaster board is fine.

 

[Aston]

yes pb is fine until its wet or inhabited with mould growth or there's an impact.

the one thing that keeps plasterboard in use is its fire resistance..once the board manufactures find a suitable alternative/ solution to that,, then plasterboard will run its course.....everything and i mean everything in construction over the next 10 years is geared up for thermal value, light weight core strength and water resistance, thats a fact, not imo..

its fair to say that most of us on here know its a gamble using plasterboard compared to a tile backer board in wet situations but this is what we are faced with in real life day to day situations and we have to sometimes use what budgets dictate.

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

Plasterboard is a fine substrate to tile too as long as its tanked Imo, yes there are better solution such as backer board but plaster board is fine.

did you not get -it , !! if British Gypsum will not recommend the use of there own product ie plasterboard then where do we stand using it lol..... if anything go's wrong then you are on your own Charlie ! it sounds to me that plasterboard has had it's day in shower areas .....

 

[charlie1]

did you not get -it , !! if British Gypsum will not recommend the use of there own product ie plasterboard then where do we stand using it lol..... if anything go's wrong then you are on your own Charlie ! it sounds to me that plasterboard has had it's day in shower areas .....

i know what your saying however i also know from personal experience that plasterboard can be fine as long as done right. Jmo

 

[Gazzer]

did you not get -it , !! if British Gypsum will not recommend the use of there own product ie plasterboard then where do we stand using it lol..... if anything go's wrong then you are on your own Charlie ! it sounds to me that plasterboard has had it's day in shower areas .....

I would like to think so but I doubt it.

 

[Colour Republic]

did you not get -it , !! if British Gypsum will not recommend the use of there own product ie plasterboard then where do we stand using it lol..... if anything go's wrong then you are on your own Charlie ! it sounds to me that plasterboard has had it's day in shower areas .....

Do you not get it!!!! It's not British gypsum I would go after it is ardex as they GUARANTEE it will be suitable. Or do ardex not know what they are talking about?

ARDEX WPC - Waterproofing 1 : Ardex

 

[m3fitter]

Aquapanel tell you to tank it as it is not waterproof but only if you ask it's not affected by water but water goes through it ete where are you in Berkshire ?

Who's Pete lol ?? @@ I'm Glen lol near you.. Twyford / Henley way..
In a domestic situation or with mosaics / stone i would tank aquapanel or commercial everytime
but ceramics / porc's large format.. no think its overkill..
i think you have to be sensible about these things.. i'm gonna tank my TX1200 just in case it rains on it :lol:

 

[kilty55]

interesting thread peeps...personally i use moist resis plasterboard on most jobs in wet areas and have done for a while now i tile them correctly and ensure baths trays are correctly fixed and the silicone work is also high standard

i have been back to these jobs sometimes a few years after done to do other work in same house and on inspection zero issues as i have covered all bases

i have however ripped out loads of bathrooms some only a year old due to shower trays bouncing around...baths not fixed properly...stud walls not sturdy enough....silicone work poor....wrong grout used...poor grouting these are the main causes i have found that cause failure on the boards yes they fail when wet so dont let them get wet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


i have yet to find a well fitted bathroom that the plasterboard substrate has failed on due to its own failures to be honest im sure they do exist somewhere but are they the common denominaitore...no imo they are not

fit the rest of the job correctly as well as your plasterboard and i do not see any issues

just my opinion

regardless of who the supplier of materials is do you think they will be man enough to admit liability without a fight /excuse if it goes wrong what a load of nonsense

 

[widler]

I actually have never said that PB is better than backer boards. I said,again, plasterboard has been used for years before backerboards, tanking ect ect blah de blah ect ect ect , and of coarse better solutions come out blah de blah ect ect ect , and yes when they get wet they are buggered ect ect ect . Also i would wager all tilers on her have tiled plasterboard shower areas in the 70s, 80s 90s, its how they did it, is it not
Ive been to hundreds upon hundreds of houses in the little time ive been a tradesman( not a proper tiler mind, only a mere plasterer ) and tiled many which have been fine, a lot more that aint.
Good little thread though,shame we aint in a room drinking beer and doing it, would be fun.

 

[jonty1]

I disagree, firstly because it's not pistols at dawn but because he can see a debate going on and make his own mind up. I don't think anybody has advised him to keep the ply, so he can either either go down the route of tanked PB, backer boards or one of the other offerings in this thread. I'd say there is enough info on pros and cons in the thread to see what sits right with him.

I didn't realise this thread had started such a big debate! It was 3 pages at the last time I looked in and then it reached 5!
All good stuff though and you can't beat a bit of debate to put different ideas into a thread to help people make informed decisions.
I'll post some photos of the shower when we built it as soon as I have a chance so you can see. It seems the ply has to go which is not really what I wanted to hear as it involves the most disruption and "homework" time for me... I was hoping I could tank it or go over it with thin wedi, but it looks like they are both a bad idea. I haven't taken the tiles off yet but I am guessing the ply should be fine because that shower has never been used after finding out that it leaked.
If I remove the ply, can I cut it flush with the top of the tray and start with backer board from that point. (The ply goes down to the floor on all three walls, back, left and right, (below and behind the side of the tray), and it is screwed into the sole plate....) This last 2 inches or so of ply will need the tray out to be removed and the tray is probably siliconed down to the floor and side of the ply etc etc.... so it could be a pig to get out now.... If I cut the ply at the top of the tray then I would have a joint right where I don't want it, right around the entire tray.... Seems like a bad idea to me.
So does the tray have to come out too then start again from the floor up if I redo it with backer?
I'm still interested in anyone's thoughts on any way of tanking or lining the ply if possible and if it is in very good nick because this is definitely the fastest and simplest route. But if it's a no go then so be it.

 

[jonty1]

Ok so it's been a while and I still haven't got round to sorting this shower out. I just took off the tiles today to reveal the ply backed walls as can be seen here: View attachment 56226 View attachment 56227
It seems the tiler has back buttered the tiles as the joints show no sign of adhesive and appear wet.... The ply is in good condition apart from the odd area of mould. The tiles came off like paper in my hands. I want to sort this mess and re-tile tomorrow and Friday if poss, so would like to ask if I can clean up the ply and wedi or similar board over the top or tank over the ply and tile or if I need to cut out the ply out and fit backer board or similar instead. If poss obviously I want to avoid taking out the ply so any ideas or help to do it this way would be great and that is really the solution I'm after... If not then of course I will rip the lot out and start again. Problem is I have limited time off to do this sort of work at home so need to fix it during time off work. Surely I can tank or wedi over 12mm ply??

 

[White Room]

Can't get your links but by the sound of it personally I'd get rid of the ply as it has some mould/fungal growth and just replace with hardie backer

 

[jonty1]

I'll try to post the photos again

 

[jonty1]

Can I use 12mm Wedi rather than hardie (for fixing to studs), purely because I hate working with backer board and cutting it

 

[RDTiling]

If you are as short of time as you say to do this sort of work at home, then I would have to agree with Whitebeam and get rid of the ply and replace with hardie backer boards.

Better to spend the extra time and do it properly rather than take a shortcut now and have to find more time to revisit in the future.

 

[swanman]

Tile backer board is good
but I've tiled onto marine ply loads of times
if it is prepared right you won't have a proplem
the right adhesive as well I use gran fix standard set flexible white

 

[jonty1]

Well I've made a start yesterday. ripped out all the ply, and then the tray wobbled..... blasted plumbers as well as the tiler now... I was cursing....... So I knew exactly what this would entail.... yep down to the kitchen, cut a nice hole in the ceiling to find the waste trap and disconnect it, then lift the tray out (dry set on chipboard.... and rocking like a good'un.. nice one), Then clean all the old silicone off everything, board the shower walls, and then bed the tray down properly. So now I have basically re-fitted the lot, including repairing the new hole in the kitchen ceiling. Tiling it today
Here's a couple of photos after boarding:

 

[Qwerty]

Well I've made a start yesterday. ripped out all the ply, and then the tray wobbled..... blasted plumbers as well as the tiler now... I was cursing....... So I knew exactly what this would entail.... yep down to the kitchen, cut a nice hole in the ceiling to find the waste trap and disconnect it, then lift the tray out (dry set on chipboard.... and rocking like a good'un.. nice one), Then clean all the old silicone off everything, board the shower walls, and then bed the tray down properly. So now I have basically re-fitted the lot, including repairing the new hole in the kitchen ceiling. Tiling it today
Here's a couple of photos after boarding:
View attachment 56274 View attachment 56275 View attachment 56276

What have you done to tank the aquapanel boards & joints?

 

[Chalker]

That looks better. Shame that you cut a hole in the ceiling! You can undo the waste from the top.

 

[mike1979]

I've read through this post and it's a bit of a funny one I'm bound to get sarcastic comments or the mick taken as every post I seem to make it feels a tad awkward perhaps I'm welsh and not in the "circle " but regards to all this shower business we all know wood is no good that's just nuts but all other trades should be educated in the art of wet rooms as plastered don't care I've gone to loads of jobs where they are boarded and plastered !! What I'm I supposed to do refuse it and sit at home plus the company I'm subbing for not their fault we are doing a housing site and they have wet rooms and it's for a big company and I'm sure they are plasterboard skimmed over but what are we suppose to do go to the site office and say that shower might leak they would tell me to get lost.

 

[Sean SML Tiling]

I've read through this post and it's a bit of a funny one I'm bound to get sarcastic comments or the mick taken as every post I seem to make it feels a tad awkward perhaps I'm welsh and not in the "circle " but regards to all this shower business we all know wood is no good that's just nuts but all other trades should be educated in the art of wet rooms as plastered don't care I've gone to loads of jobs where they are boarded and plastered !! What I'm I supposed to do refuse it and sit at home plus the company I'm subbing for not their fault we are doing a housing site and they have wet rooms and it's for a big company and I'm sure they are plasterboard skimmed over but what are we suppose to do go to the site office and say that shower might leak they would tell me to get lost.

Im welsh too mike and I have had the odd sheep joke chucked at me lol if you work on site they just dont care about if its right or wrong they just want it tiled. I work on new build and nothing gets tanked or ever will. Private work I would tank. Its all ifs and buts. If it leaks then the plumber is responsible.

 

[mike1979]

I see your in Newport I'm only down Abergavenny I work with the tredegar lads