Tiles falling off 12mm ply....

[jonty1]

I disagree, firstly because it's not pistols at dawn but because he can see a debate going on and make his own mind up. I don't think anybody has advised him to keep the ply, so he can either either go down the route of tanked PB, backer boards or one of the other offerings in this thread. I'd say there is enough info on pros and cons in the thread to see what sits right with him.

I didn't realise this thread had started such a big debate! It was 3 pages at the last time I looked in and then it reached 5!
All good stuff though and you can't beat a bit of debate to put different ideas into a thread to help people make informed decisions.
I'll post some photos of the shower when we built it as soon as I have a chance so you can see. It seems the ply has to go which is not really what I wanted to hear as it involves the most disruption and "homework" time for me... I was hoping I could tank it or go over it with thin wedi, but it looks like they are both a bad idea. I haven't taken the tiles off yet but I am guessing the ply should be fine because that shower has never been used after finding out that it leaked.
If I remove the ply, can I cut it flush with the top of the tray and start with backer board from that point. (The ply goes down to the floor on all three walls, back, left and right, (below and behind the side of the tray), and it is screwed into the sole plate....) This last 2 inches or so of ply will need the tray out to be removed and the tray is probably siliconed down to the floor and side of the ply etc etc.... so it could be a pig to get out now.... If I cut the ply at the top of the tray then I would have a joint right where I don't want it, right around the entire tray.... Seems like a bad idea to me.
So does the tray have to come out too then start again from the floor up if I redo it with backer?
I'm still interested in anyone's thoughts on any way of tanking or lining the ply if possible and if it is in very good nick because this is definitely the fastest and simplest route. But if it's a no go then so be it.

 

[jonty1]

Ok so it's been a while and I still haven't got round to sorting this shower out. I just took off the tiles today to reveal the ply backed walls as can be seen here:View attachment 56226View attachment 56227
It seems the tiler has back buttered the tiles as the joints show no sign of adhesive and appear wet.... The ply is in good condition apart from the odd area of mould. The tiles came off like paper in my hands. I want to sort this mess and re-tile tomorrow and Friday if poss, so would like to ask if I can clean up the ply and wedi or similar board over the top or tank over the ply and tile or if I need to cut out the ply out and fit backer board or similar instead. If poss obviously I want to avoid taking out the ply so any ideas or help to do it this way would be great and that is really the solution I'm after... If not then of course I will rip the lot out and start again. Problem is I have limited time off to do this sort of work at home so need to fix it during time off work. Surely I can tank or wedi over 12mm ply??

 

[White Room]

Can't get your links but by the sound of it personally I'd get rid of the ply as it has some mould/fungal growth and just replace with hardie backer

 

[jonty1]

I'll try to post the photos again

 

[jonty1]

Can I use 12mm Wedi rather than hardie (for fixing to studs), purely because I hate working with backer board and cutting it

 

[RDTiling]

If you are as short of time as you say to do this sort of work at home, then I would have to agree with Whitebeam and get rid of the ply and replace with hardie backer boards.

Better to spend the extra time and do it properly rather than take a shortcut now and have to find more time to revisit in the future.

 

[swanman]

Tile backer board is good
but I've tiled onto marine ply loads of times
if it is prepared right you won't have a proplem
the right adhesive as well I use gran fix standard set flexible white

 

[jonty1]

Well I've made a start yesterday. ripped out all the ply, and then the tray wobbled..... blasted plumbers as well as the tiler now... I was cursing....... So I knew exactly what this would entail.... yep down to the kitchen, cut a nice hole in the ceiling to find the waste trap and disconnect it, then lift the tray out (dry set on chipboard.... and rocking like a good'un.. nice one), Then clean all the old Silicon off everything, board the shower walls, and then bed the tray down properly. So now I have basically re-fitted the lot, including repairing the new hole in the kitchen ceiling. Tiling it today
Here's a couple of photos after boarding:

 

[Qwerty]

Well I've made a start yesterday. ripped out all the ply, and then the tray wobbled..... blasted plumbers as well as the tiler now... I was cursing....... So I knew exactly what this would entail.... yep down to the kitchen, cut a nice hole in the ceiling to find the waste trap and disconnect it, then lift the tray out (dry set on chipboard.... and rocking like a good'un.. nice one), Then clean all the old Silicon off everything, board the shower walls, and then bed the tray down properly. So now I have basically re-fitted the lot, including repairing the new hole in the kitchen ceiling. Tiling it today
Here's a couple of photos after boarding:
View attachment 56274View attachment 56275View attachment 56276

What have you done to tank the aquapanel boards & joints?

 

[Chalker]

That looks better. Shame that you cut a hole in the ceiling! You can undo the waste from the top.

 

[mike1979]

I've read through this post and it's a bit of a funny one I'm bound to get sarcastic comments or the mick taken as every post I seem to make it feels a tad awkward perhaps I'm welsh and not in the "circle " but regards to all this shower business we all know wood is no good that's just nuts but all other trades should be educated in the art of wet rooms as plastered don't care I've gone to loads of jobs where they are boarded and plastered !! What I'm I supposed to do refuse it and sit at home plus the company I'm subbing for not their fault we are doing a housing site and they have wet rooms and it's for a big company and I'm sure they are plasterboard skimmed over but what are we suppose to do go to the site office and say that shower might leak they would tell me to get lost.

 

[Sean SML Tiling]

I've read through this post and it's a bit of a funny one I'm bound to get sarcastic comments or the mick taken as every post I seem to make it feels a tad awkward perhaps I'm welsh and not in the "circle " but regards to all this shower business we all know wood is no good that's just nuts but all other trades should be educated in the art of wet rooms as plastered don't care I've gone to loads of jobs where they are boarded and plastered !! What I'm I supposed to do refuse it and sit at home plus the company I'm subbing for not their fault we are doing a housing site and they have wet rooms and it's for a big company and I'm sure they are plasterboard skimmed over but what are we suppose to do go to the site office and say that shower might leak they would tell me to get lost.

Im welsh too mike and I have had the odd sheep joke chucked at me lol if you work on site they just dont care about if its right or wrong they just want it tiled. I work on new build and nothing gets tanked or ever will. Private work I would tank. Its all ifs and buts. If it leaks then the plumber is responsible.

 

[mike1979]

I see your in Newport I'm only down Abergavenny I work with the tredegar lads

 

[Mr Tiler]

any work in wales mike? the mother inlaw lives just on the border could stay there if anything was goin lol

 

[mike1979]

Nothing fella I can't get going me self I've got two sites one in brynmawr and one in risca and I'm on stop on both as they got nothing ready

 

[Mr Tiler]

dam maybe get advertising bud! lol

 

[mike1979]

Ye I might send the wife around town in the van a few times tomorrow lol

 

[mike1979]

Got a few things in the pipe work but I keep that to me myself and I until it comes off

 

[jonty1]

What have you done to tank the aquapanel boards & joints?

Fiba tape and adhesive skim to all joints, no tanking, the stickers on the boards and aquapanel website both said it is ok to tile directly onto the boards.....
Don't say it's wrong again pleeease! What's the point in aquapanel if it needs tanking... Gyproc would have been a lot cheaper

 

[Stef]

I've read through this post and it's a bit of a funny one I'm bound to get sarcastic comments or the mick taken as every post I seem to make it feels a tad awkward perhaps I'm welsh and not in the "circle " but regards to all this shower business we all know wood is no good that's just nuts but all other trades should be educated in the art of wet rooms as plastered don't care I've gone to loads of jobs where they are boarded and plastered !! What I'm I supposed to do refuse it and sit at home plus the company I'm subbing for not their fault we are doing a housing site and they have wet rooms and it's for a big company and I'm sure they are plasterboard skimmed over but what are we suppose to do go to the site office and say that shower might leak they would tell me to get lost.

Mike, when your on site you just have to go ahead & tile even though a lot of the time you know it's not right.
It would be great to have the luxury of walking off one site & straight into the next.
As you say, they would just tell you to do one & get someone else in.
Even though I sub to a company it doesn't fall back on me if things go wrong.
"I told you so", I've used that phrase on more than one occasion.
Now if I'm doing a private job then it's a different matter..

 

[jonty1]

That looks better. Shame that you cut a hole in the ceiling! You can undo the waste from the top.

I know but not easy when it's all stuck fast with Silicon, also this trap is on a flexi waste so would be a nightmare to line up and get back on.....

 

[Mr Tiler]

Mike, when your on site you just have to go ahead & tile even though a lot of the time you know it's not right.
It would be great to have the luxury of walking off one site & straight into the next.
As you say, they would just tell you to do one & get someone else in.
Even though I sub to a company it doesn't fall back on me if things go wrong.
"I told you so", I've used that phrase on more than one occasion. 
Now if I'm doing a private job then it's a different matter..

so do you even bother arguing the fact its not rite or crack on and if it fails they attempt to get you back? or is there some sort of agreement before starting the jobs?

 

[mike1979]

It would be the main builders responsibilities I suppose as your working to their specs

 

[Stef]

so do you even bother arguing the fact its not rite or crack on and if it fails they attempt to get you back? or is there some sort of agreement before starting the jobs?

The way I look at it is,
I give out the correct advice & if they don't listen then its up to them as the contract is with the company I work for & the client.
I normally get introduced to the client & if I'm not happy I speak to them & tell them how it should be done & that's normally enough.
If your in house bashing then you never meet who's buying the house & you just crack on, if you have a good site agent (there are some around) then they will listen to you but they won't stump up for tanking etc as that will eat into their profit.
One day all house builders will either do wet areas correct or will be made to by the powers that be.
That day will come when I'm not walking this earth..

 

[Qwerty]

Fiba tape and adhesive skim to all joints, no tanking, the stickers on the boards and aquapanel website both said it is ok to tile directly onto the boards.....
Don't say it's wrong again pleeease! What's the point in aquapanel if it needs tanking... Gyproc would have been a lot cheaper

Aquapanel is fine to tile to directly but was curious if you had tanked it to make it waterproof or not (aquapanel is only water resistant). Not looking to criticise jonty, just to advise 🙂

 

[jonty1]

Aquapanel is fine to tile to directly but was curious if you had tanked it to make it waterproof or not (aquapanel is only water resistant). Not looking to criticise jonty, just to advise 🙂

Understood, I tiled it yesterday so it's too late now!

The guy who did this first time round also left the spacers in the corners and grouted over them. (Surely this is not good practice as the grout must be very thin at the corners; however I looked on the pack I was using yesterday and it says "can be grouted in"...??)
This combined with the movement of 12mm ply (and the fact that the tray was not bedded on anything and actually moved too) has to be why the whole thing failed and the tiles came off like a pack of cards in the wind.
I was on holiday at the time they did it so missed it all and as they say: "when the cats away...." needless to say I no longer use or recommend the plumber or the tiler!

 

[widler]

What i don't get is why people say plasterboard is crap, if the jobs done right there will be no problem at all.
Its poor prep and crap tradesmen which is the problem most of the time.

I will continue to use plasterboard as i and thousands of others have used around the country(world?)if that makes me a cowboy to 6 or 7 on here ,then well, i can live with that .

 

[Mr Tiler]

What i don't get is why people say plasterboard is crap, if the jobs done right there will be no problem at all.
Its poor prep and crap tradesmen which is the problem most of the time.

I will continue to use plasterboard as i and thousands of others have used around the country(world?)if that makes me a cowboy to 6 or 7 on here ,then well, i can live with that .

do you tank it mate? or tile straight onto? not judging just asking! lol

 

[widler]

Done both, even tiled showers with tubbed onto plasterboard in the 80s /90s just like the majority of tilers on here,who were around then,And without a problem i may add.

 

[Ian]

There are plenty of people who won't even entertain having tanking done, even though I spend a good bit of time explaining the benefits. Some people either don't want the extra expense or just can't understand the benefits of it.

 

[Qwerty]

Plasterboard is fine. I always tank it though as seen far too many fail without tanking. The sooner tanking becomes building regs/ British standards the better IMO