tiling over floor grade chipboard

[grumpygrouter]

I am going to stick my fingers in my ears and go "la la la la la la "

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:...

 

[Tabby Cranks]

I think we need to rewind a bit here.
The advice given from the start is the correct advice. Most tilers wouldn't tile onto green chipboard even with an adhesive like fastflex. The reason is not because they want to make more work for themselves, but because they have seen the failures over a period of time. Their experience backs up what the BS states with regard fixing onto timber floors.
I've heard of bathroom floors that have been down 20+ years, fixed onto 6mm hardboard. You would never recommend fixing onto that.

You can illustrate it this way. If the law states that you should not drink more than 2 pints and drive, but if I drink four, drive for 10 years without an accident, does that mean that the law is wrong? No, there are lots of other things that could mean that me drinking 4 pints has a lot less effect on someone drink 2. I hope you're getting my point.
That is that your floor may indeed may have enough good things going for it, to minimise the risk of movement, thus keeping the floor sound.
I wonder how it would be if they were your kids and not grandkids, running over it on a day to day basis etc...
One more thing, does that room stay fairly cool all day, or does the sunshine in during the day, then cool at night?
All being said, you may well have a floor that will stay good for many years (using a quality adhesive helps), you took a calculated risk and it's paid off. The thing is proffessional tilers wouldn't take those kind of risks, they'll give you advice how they see fit.

 

[Perry]

We have tried to give you advise based on combined dozens of years of experience and tried to explain what problems you are going to have. You have chosen to ignore what has been suggested sadly.

Hopefully things will be OK for you. Good luck, I hope you are still crack free at christmas.

Grumps as you know some of clever people know better than us with all there experience 1 job lol

 

[sharpfamily]

hello Tabby,
thanks for your comments. you're right i took a calculated risk and so far it's paid off. I could do this because it's my home, i was doing it, and the job wasn't safety critical (cf. electrics, boilers, drinking & driving etc ) and, with a professional engineering background, i felt competent to do the risk assessment.

I fully appreciate the commercial risks professional tilers have.

However, I'm still interested to understand why my floor has worked given all the strong advice that it won't and the multi-varied suggestions of what should be done: eg the many brands and types of adhesive, overboarding with ply, various backer boards, membranes etc. There are so many variations on the methods and products the professionals use - all seem to have their own personal preferences.

As regards your queries - I think the traffic load on the floor over the past 3 years will have been at least domestic average, as the room is the main family room - nb the 6 grandkids vary in age from 6months to 14 years but obviously not all here on day to day basis! I can't believe floor traffic is a key issue here.

As regards temperature effects. The windows face due south so during summer days, the sun shines directly onto the floor. In winter the room is heated by a multi fuel stove and we like the temp in the room to be high. When we're away in the winter, the room has little heating and gets very very cold....especially last winter. So the floor has seen many wide temperature variations over the 3 years.

As regards adhesive, I understand BAL don't recommend their SPF on chipboard - may be they're cautiously underestimating the performance of their product, given the variety/quality of chipboards/floor construction. I had used BAL 2 part flexible (+BAL shower kit) on my first tiling here (5 years ago) in our shower room with warmup under tile heating on warmup insulation boards. It's performed very well, but I found the 2 part very messy and unpleasant to work with and it's dear. My last job here (2yrs ago) was on another shower room, again with undertile electric heating, and that time I used the newer bal single part fastflex product. (+ BAL shower kit). Again this has performed very well and was much more pleasant to use that the 2 part and significantly lower cost.

I hope this thread has given interest & food for thought. I wish all tilers good luck.

best,graham

 

[Andy Allen]

ahhh your an engineer, that explains alot, most engineers we get on here seem to know more about tiling than all of us put together lol.

i dont understand why you keep saying bal fast flex is messeir to work with than single part fast flex, its the same product, apart from one you mix with a liquid, and one you mix with water hence the cheaper price.

floor traffic has a lot to do with it, get a piece of chipboard, tile and grout it and the tiles will be fine, jump up and down on it and they will brake, the more you jump up and down on it the more it will brake, if its just you and your wife at home with the occasional visit from the grand kids then i would put it in the low foot traffic bracket.

bal products imo, are some of the best on the market, abeit expensive for day to day use, however to say they may be underestimating there products i find absurd, you have a company that invest millions in product research, to produce adhesives suitable for all most every tile application you can think of, providing you follow there recommended guide lines.

your floor is still down now and i hope it stays that way, but lets face it, if it were to all crack up in 6 months time would you really come back here and tell us?

 

[sharpfamily]

andy - yes, i will report back if the floor does start to show signs of distress......any possible embarrassment in this forum would be nothing, compared to my embarassment with family, friends and neighbours.

Regarding your other comments, thanks, but:

Low floor traffic has got to be a red herring here, as the room is big & multi functional. It's been subject to heavy loading from several big parties over the 3yrs......including dancing!

& how many folk are usually in say a domestic kitchen anyway on a day to day basis.....the chief cook and bottle washer.

I think the key thing is that my floor is solid with no measurable deflection or bounce.

Also, I found bal 2 part fast flex (used for small shower uth floor) messy and harder to clean off compared to bal single part flexible that I used on the family room floor. I found new single part fast flex is not as messy as the 2 part on the other shower room uth floor.....maybe because it's water based. On the walls of the shower rooms I used bal single part flexible (plus bal shower kit) onto plasterboard.

g

 

[Rich]

Wow!

How did I miss this thread!?

I love structural engineers!

 

[widler]

people,lets stop internet biatching,jeez, the man has tiled a floor,not the way we would do it,but he has,its lasted all this time,maybe it will last 10 more years.
i ripped a floor up last year,tiled onto these boards,only 4m2,they had been down 7 years,i know,its my neighbours,agood mate,he moved out the other year the new lady dident like em,i re tiled it for her,and i swear on my girls,it was the hardest floor i have ripped up,i dont know what he used,but the tiles came up in tiny bits,and what adhisive stuck to the floor,i had to chip up a bit at a time.
a right pain

 

[sharpfamily]

hello widler - many thanks for your generous concluding comment on this very, very long thread.

I don't think there's anything more to be said. Meanwhile I've already promised I will report back to the forum if my floor does start to show distress.

good luck to all.

best,
graham

 

[kilty55]

good luck graham,i really hope it doesnt fail

 

[ollymonkeynuts]

Is this turning out to be the longest/oldest thread on record??!!:lol:

 

[sharpfamily]

& I shall be reporting back every year my floor retains its integrity........could go on for ever??.......hopefully!!!

blimey I see there's been nearly 14,000 viewings of this thread......so far.

 

[Andy Allen]

we shall look forward to it...

 

[Perry]

Is this turning out to be the longest/oldest thread on record??!!:lol:

and i don't think its a good thread as people reading might be misguided, and do the same. its fine if you can afford to be so arrogant, but if you cant, which most people cant, it would be a shame if someone else followed the same route, and ended up as most jobs would done that way would. also if our customers started asking for us to tile that way

 

[sharpfamily]

and i don't think its a good thread as people reading might be misguided, and do the same. its fine if you can afford to be so arrogant, but if you cant, which most people cant, it would be a shame if someone else followed the same route, and ended up as most jobs would done that way would. also if our customers started asking for us to tile that way

Arrogant!?- that's very unfair.

But here's an idea regarding your concerns: You can now simply provide readers with a bullet point summary of what you believe to be best tiling practice when faced with an existing chipboard floor.