Myths and Misunderstandings: Testing the water resistance of grout

[The D]

kieran i will pm you his number

 

[Dan]

kieran i will pm you his number

I'm sure he wouldn't mind his number in the tilersforums arms. He's not going to get anybody but potential customers ringing him.

If I select vitrified tiles, for a floor, with 3mm joint, on concrete, I'll give it to you, it doesn't insist on tanking.

BAL M40 Tiling Specification (Contractors)
Specification Title: Tiling a Shower
110
TILING TO BATHROOM 4

Tiles: Vitrified - Vitrified Tile
Size: 450mm x 450mm x 9mm
Base/Background: Concrete
Preparation: General preparation as clause 300
Bedding: BAL-LARGE FORMAT TROWEL (FLOOR) as clause 820
Adhesive: BAL SINGLE PART FLEXIBLE (GREY)
Grout: BAL WIDE JOINT GROUT
Colour: Charcoal
Joint width: 3mm

 

[Dan]

Kieran 07792470430 who says it's a health and safety risk to use tanking in a shower with BAL products. Allegedly.

 

[Dan]

I've had enough of this thread lol

I wont be replying any more. It's the pettiest thing I've done and seen done since I was about 12.

I'm just not ready to fall out with a human over tiles, I need more time before I do that pmsl it seems I'm just not that way inclined.

All the best to Deano and those who wish to use or not use tanking in showers. lol

 

[The D]

yes is prop best you just stop now lol

if there is water sat behind the tiles it is not normal and you have a problem and that is all i have been saying from the start.

 

[Dan]

We've all said that. There's water behind the womans tiles. There's a thread saying so. And you and I both have said it's a problem.

Thank god for water resistant grout though, as the water can get back through!

lol

Given myself a new tag so people know the score when I'm replying.

 

[Ajax123]

This is all getting a bit "handbags at dawn isnt it"

Can I just clarify. there seems to be a tanking is not essential opinion on one side and an it is essential on the other. Is that right.

Deano your own experiment showed that water get through the grout so I don't understand how you can accept the BAL reps opinion that water behind tiles is ridiculous. Grout is not impervious to the passage of water. Showers get wet. Ergo water gets behind tiles in showers. The amount is the key. Is it enough to do damage and how does that damage occur.

The need for tanking would therefore depend more in then on the implication of that water. If it is getting through to a highly absorbent and substrate which will suffer deleterious effect over time e.g. plasterboard, Ply or heaven forbid MDF then I would say tanking is essential. If it is a brick or block wall that has been sand cement rendered, or a cement board lined cubicle then is it an optional safeguard.

 

[The D]

im out

 

[Dan]

If you can fill one of these in for me @deanotile ill make sure it gets filled as soon as I have time.

Haha

 

[widler]

I think like ive already said its been proved for decades that tanking is NOT essential in domestic showers , its just another safegaurd, possibly a good one ???
Another thing what makes me a bit dubious about tanking is its EASY to peel off , its like set PVA could this be a issue with weight ??
(I know i know it says somewhere that its not a problem and it can take 5tonnes per m2 ) try it

 

[widler]

BAL always recommend tanking in showers used anything more than intermittently. And to use water resistant (not proof) adhesive.

So yeah, always tank showers up to head height.

BAL would reccomend it dan, they wanna sell it

 

[White Room]

Next 2 jobs I have are domestic showers leaking, tiles coming away from the wet plasterboard...

 

[widler]

Im just banging head against a wall here
Ok no worries chaps , have fun , catch thee later

 

[Dan]

This is the Milky Way spiral galaxy, we call home.

In one arm of that, sits our solar system. We sent satellites out in the 60's that still haven't reached our furthest planet in our solar system.

There's an arrow pointing to our sun. The arrow is the width of 100 suns. You wouldn't see it if it wasn't.

When you look up, some of the 'stars' you see are actually other galaxies, sometimes two dancing with each other.

There could be life in each arm of our own Milky Way.

In our life time we will never know about them. For sure. Out 1000th generation grand child from now probably won't know anything either. By then, 100,000 years from now, the rovers we sent in the 60's would have long died. They still wouldn't have reached outside those spirals.

In that tiny little mix of dots, is our forum. On that forum, there's a thread. In that thread there are some posts.

Never ever ever think what you post in one, or read in one, will change anything at all in the grand scheme of things.

Don't worry. I've danced with Deano's mrs and I hope to again. I have a video where we made a pyramid of shots, and then d1ckhead here knocked them over.

That was at a party for phil's 60th. Who I'm about to call tomorrow.

Let's just move on from this ********.

It's wise to use tanking, it's fine to avoid it. End of.

 

[Ajax123]

Quitter

 

[WetSaw]

It's fun in The Arms isn't it!

 

[Dan]

Yeah don't mention dot and dab in here. Christ, heavens open and all sorts.

 

[WetSaw]

Dot 'n Dab are my best mates

 

[Spare Tool]

Great this pub...speaking of dot n dab followed a van the other day
Might be doing the guy an injustice but 'jack of all' fffssaake look closely and tilings on there

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

ok time to bring this to the real world uk over 100 million bath and shower rooms 99% grouted with love water grouts refurb rate evey 7 to 9 years main reason for refurb out dated .one day fat will kill you next its good for you .to many vested intrest to many without the courage to question .so the king is in the all tougher all tougher as naked as the day he was born .respect those who question for you. while all you know you are told the three wise monkeys of tiling.dean you did not know the answers but were willing to look for them if only 1 in 1000 tiler did the same we would be telling them not them telling us

 

[widler]

I beleive in aliens

 

[SJPurdy]

Is tanking BS in domestic showers?
I mean in wetrooms , its obvious , but in a domestic shower ?

BS are recommendations only ( but could be used as evidence - so if not followed and something goes wrong!). As I said before I think a professional tiler should inform a customer of the BS recommendations so that it is the customers informed choice as to wether to pay for it - although ideally in the future it should become a "building regulation equivalent" so that anyone buying the property in the future will know the standard that it has been constructed to.
Application of tanking is recommended for all showers where the substrate would potentially be damaged by the ingress of water through the tiling layer. The tanking is to protect the substrate.
This is from memory as I no longer have a home copy of BS to refer to.
You do not therefore have to apply tanking over the top of eg. a waterproof tile-backer board (assuming joints are all appropriately sealed - and I would even recommend a secondary elastic tanking tape seal over corners in wet rooms as these are the obvious weak points).

Personally for new build showers I think tile backer boards should be used as tanking the tiled surface of eg plasterboard is often pointless as the leaks are often from the plumbing joints which are on the un-tanked side of the board.

I wonder how many different manufacturer's tubed D1 adhesive instructions still state that they can be used in domestic showers?

 

[The D]

This will be my last post just to clarify my point.

to start with i am not and never have said that tanking is a waste of time. i do however think that tanking is a very important back up to tiling, should the tiling fail the tanking is there to protect the back ground.


On the subject of grout we all know that grout is not water “proof” but that does not automatically mean it will not offer any resistance to the water. my test in this thread showed that a bog standard grout will resist FULL submersion in water for over 6 hours.

I have no doubt that in a domestic shower as long as the grout has no defects it will resist indefinitely.


There has been a misunderstanding somewhere along the line and pics posted of failed tiling and damage to backgrounds but none of that is due to water ingress through a well grouted joint. This sort of damage is more often caused by bad workmanship. I am certain that if you call any grout manufacturer and ask how many failed domestic installations had been caused purely by water ingress through a well grouted joint they would tell you none.


As for water passing through the grout and sitting behind the tiles and the tiling just being decorative this is just stupid if that was true why would we bother having tiles. I asked a BAL rep about it as this is the first time in 30 years of tiling i have come across someone with this misconception and i was told in no uncertain terms that this was not the norm and if there was water behind the tiles this would be a H&S issue. it had nothing to do with the tanking being a H&S issue that is just another example of someone being given information and totally misunderstanding it.

 

[widler]

It's what I've been trying to get across deano, bad workmanship will cause failure, it just doesn't seem to sink in some folks heeds
They can or can't in this case ,qoute BS about it defo without question being needed in every domestic shower in the whole wide world cos it will fail without doubt and we will be smited down by the hand of God and cast into hell
Personally , in some cases hell looks the better option

 

[WetSaw]

I've only recently been seeing these new fangled tanking kits in the plumbers merchants over here.