Advice needed - poor workmanship?

[Karen79]

As above. Finishing and remedial works are required, whether a total rip out is necessary - additional photos may be usefull (showing whole walls etc,) to get a overall picture, the attached pics definitely shows the devils in the detail). As your plumber had carried out the tiling works, what expectation/standard of workmanship can you reasonable expect, that of the average plumber doing tiling work?.

Thank you for your response. I will attach some pics of the whole walls to give you a better idea. To be fair when you stand from afar it doesn't actually look as bad, its when you get up close you see the issues (which isn't hard, it's a small bathroom!). I understand what you're saying about the plumber doing the tiling, however he assured me he would do a good job of it and said he was an experienced and competent tiler. I did suggest getting someone in for it but he said he was happy and able to do it himself. He probably wanted to make more money for himself out of the job I expect. I have learned lessons from this for sure, won't make the same mistake again!

 

[Karen79]

As you havent paid yet you have the upper hand. He wont come back and if he did would you really want him there? He's blaming the walls but they were plastered on his recommendation. Get one of the other tilers in (probably qualified) and get them to do a total refit as the recommend,they sound like they know what they're doing. Hopefully you get the job done at no extra cost to yourself.

I am so so glad we agreed upon payment on completion. If not no doubt I would have had a legal battle on my hands. I may still do if he decides to take me to small claims for payment. I'm concerned that if we get it redone and then he decides to make a claim against me the evidence will be gone. I am hoping the photos will help in that respect. It's such an awful situation we are devastated and not sure what to do next? I've just written a formal letter to him which I will send via recorded delivery today, have printed off some photos of the issues we have as well and will send them with it. Hopefully he will accept that the work is shoddy and leave us be to get it sorted, fingers crossed!

Will definitely get the flexi hose looked at, to be fair it looks like the only option is a refit so in that case as long as I use decent trademen this time they will be able to put it all right.

 

[Paul Russell]

If he gets funny with you,you have always got trading standards as back up,which i'd think he wont want to have to deal with. I know he's not a tiler but if he's happy to charge for a job it has to be done to a certain standard. I hope you get it sorted and not be out of pocket, good luc.k

 

[Karen79]

As above. Finishing and remedial works are required, whether a total rip out is necessary - additional photos may be usefull (showing whole walls etc,) to get a overall picture, the attached pics definitely shows the devils in the detail). As your plumber had carried out the tiling works, what expectation/standard of workmanship can you reasonable expect, that of the average plumber doing tiling work?.

Here are some pics of walls from further back, it's hard as the bathroom is small so can't stand back enough to get whole walls in. As I say it doesn't look all that bad when you stand back, apart from the fact he has used a different tiling pattern halfway up the wall around the window so it doesn't match the rest of the tiling! Also the unfinished parts around the window, at the back of the bath and down the side of the bath near the shower screen. Not sure how he would have completed down the side of the bath without boxing in the bath panel, and the tiles come out past the architrave too at the bottom, if he'd continued tiling down to finish it they would've come out really far.

Would be really grateful on opinions when you see the walls from afar please. Do you think we should be happy with it or that it could be patched up or is a refit necessary? Without a doubt the mosaic border needs to come out, its a total mess close up! Around the window needs changing to match the rest of the tile pattern too and not sure how you'd get around finishing down the side of the bath without taking all those tiles off either? Bear in mind he has said he is unwilling to try and put right the defects, he blamed the walls and the fact the mosaic border was a different thickness to the tiles and has said he does not think he could have done a better job. He has told us to source our own tiler to rectify it, but no one will attempt it they all say rip it out!!

 

[Bond]

As l suspected from afar it doesn't look to bad,(for a plumber) where he fails is in the finer points. ( which can be sorted) - if you can find a tiler to do the work. Whether it requires a total rip-out, l guess depends on how well the tiles themselves have been fixed. do you know what type of adhesive was used, was it ready made, in a tub or from a bag and mixed on-site.?

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Your contract is with the plumber - so he is responsible to pay the sub contractors, the joiner and electrician, so don't pay him a penny.
You need to get an estimate to remove what has been done and start again.
Unfortunately I wouldn't do anything to your bathroom until it has been resolved and you need to get it in writing that he will NOT return to put right your issues.
It looks to me as though this will go to court but from your pictures I doubt if there will be any problems getting the costs of upheaval and damage paid for.

 

[Blunt Tool]

IMO you should write or email original plumber and give him a chance to rectify all areas you are not happy with, wether it be himself or him hiring a tiler to sort. Tell him once this is done and you are happy with standard, payment will be made. Give him an agreed amount of time to rectify and if he has not then you will take in other tradesmen to rectify all works which will be taken off his bill till all works completed to a satisfactory finish. Any monies left over will be forwarded to him and copies of bills to get rectified. If he wants to go to court let him as no chance of him winning and all costs will be him liable. Sub contractors are on him also not you!

 

[On one]

Ps.. if he's a plumber he's not a good one,that flexi-hose seems to have a too tight "kink" in it,this could affect your water supply to the tap,get someone to look at it,hope you get everything sorted.

Exactly what I was thinking.......not a very good plumber

 

[On one]

Pic No 3......above the toilet

 

[kevsalt]

wheres the brick bond gone round the window ....beggars belief that he thinks thats acceptable

 

[Bond]

wheres the brick bond gone round the window ....beggars belief that he thinks thats acceptable

Out the window, I presume.

 

[jobdone]

To many errors more diy than pro.
Is the extractor low voltage and the circuit on an rcd, as that fan is in zone one. Should have been moved from the shower.

 

[One Day]

A word of warning - he could chase you for payment and technically you are or would be in breach of contract. You are 100% right to dispute the work though - it is shockingly bad.
Do you have legal advice as part of your home insurance? Or access to a solicitor?
At the very least, talk to citizen's advice who will give you proper advice so you don't end up HAVING to pay him now, and then go to the massive ache of having to try and reclaim costs from him.
At this point, try to get everything in writing and save all communications in case you need them later on!

 

[Karen79]

A word of warning - he could chase you for payment and technically you are or would be in breach of contract. You are 100% right to dispute the work though - it is shockingly bad.
Do you have legal advice as part of your home insurance? Or access to a solicitor?
At the very least, talk to citizen's advice who will give you proper advice so you don't end up HAVING to pay him now, and then go to the massive ache of having to try and reclaim costs from him.
At this point, try to get everything in writing and save all communications in case you need them later on!

Thank you for your advice, this is exactly what I am worried about! I have already contacted Citizen's advice and they explained that as the work has not been finished and to an acceptable standard, reasonable care and skill has not been used, therefore the plumber is in breach of contract. However, if I withhold payment technically I am also in breach of contract as well. They said ultimately only a judge can decide if it comes to that and we cannot agree amicably on a suitable resolution.

I have written a detailed letter today explaining all the issues we have with the work, also included photos showing some of the defects. I have put in the letter that we have offered him the opportunity to come and finish the work and put right the defects but he has declined and suggested we source another tiler. I have also stated in the letter that I offered him the chance to appoint an impartial and competent tiler himself to come and look and give his opinion on whether the work can be rectified without a total refit to which he also declined. This way it shows that we are trying to mitigate our losses. I have explained that we are not intentionally withholding payment and that the agreement we had was that payment would be on completion of the work and the work is still incomplete. I also reminded him that our contract is solely with him and not the subcontractors as he has asked for part payment so that he can pay them. I have asked him to respond within 14 days to the letter and will send it off tomorrow via recorded delivery. From now on I am only willing to communicate via letter so that it can be evidence in court (apparently emails are not acceptable).

 

[Karen79]

To many errors more diy than pro.
Is the extractor low voltage and the circuit on an rcd, as that fan is in zone one. Should have been moved from the shower.

I really don't know!! I know that we have an RCD fuse box so I assume so but I know nothing about electrics at all! Thing is, he says the work has been signed off on Part P Building regs but we have seen nothing to confirm this yet. I will have to get this looked into. Thanks for pointing it out.