dot and dab

[Flintstone]

Must have been some one else! Do you grout upto a plastic drain ?

 

[One Day]

Must have been some one else! Do you grout upto a plastic drain ?

The wedi drains need seating on blobs (yes blobs!) of adhesive on each corner, that allows water to drain below the tiles. If you Silicon round the grate holder it can block it all up.
Accept that grout will allow water through, but it must get down the drain, not get trapped around it.

 

[Flintstone]

I did just that, sat it on blobs.
Imp I'm sorry to upset you but if you go to about 9 min 30

Now where's my green label!

 

[One Day]

Ok, but that's not how i was taught at wedi Manchester. That's a US video i think and we all know what Jeremy Clarkson thinks about our American cousins!

I'll stick with grout, but as i like to say - if it works for you, do it!

 

[Flintstone]

He's as English as egg and chips !
Personally I don't mind which way i do it just want to do it the right way. Grouting is easier of course.

 

[Old Mod]

Now where's my green label!

 

[One Day]

He's as English as egg and chips !
Personally I don't mind which way i do it just want to do it the right way. Grouting is easier of course.

no sound, my bad, sorry!

 

[Italy]

I read the trends, what to say ?.
Here in Italy, the story is different, all the walls are sand and cement, or similar.
90% of the works have crooked walls, then perfection is achieved only as said @Ste450 . I use the same +/- the same system, only add a layer of adhesive with the toothed blade, before application. Unfortunately, the advent of large formats requires me mostly the same system and also confirm that the tile is more clinging with this system, the only tiles that I saw fall from the walls were only applied with a serrated blade.
I'm not talking to pose with (dab or whatever the cazzo you say), he's talking about a draft of 80/90% of adhesive, the tile and beating with a rubber hammer.
with a thickness of 10mm limit, otherwise proceed with a shaving before installation, this system is not applicable with small sizes, with smaller sizes, proceed with shaving of the walls.
speaking of history, in the early days that I started, the tiles were applied with lime and the process is +/- the same, then? . Now what do we do? If they are not worthy to call me pro tiler, remove to me all the colored badge, is not a problem for me. I'm just more than 30 years that I do this job, no one has ever called me to tell me, the tiles are falling off the wall, it's just luck ?. maybe yes.
P.S. internal shower, should be cared much more to prevent water seepage and thin tiles with this system is NOT APPLICABLE.

 

[LM]

Just to clarify then, dot and dabing is not the same as solid bedding within adhesive limits ?? 😵😱















Lol 😀😀

 

[Ste450]

I read the trends, what to say ?.
Here in Italy, the story is different, all the walls are sand and cement, or similar.
90% of the works have crooked walls, then perfection is achieved only as said @Ste450 . I use the same +/- the same system, only add a layer of adhesive with the toothed blade, before application. Unfortunately, the advent of large formats requires me mostly the same system and also confirm that the tile is more clinging with this system, the only tiles that I saw fall from the walls were only applied with a serrated blade.
I'm not talking to pose with (dab or whatever the cazzo you say), he's talking about a draft of 80/90% of adhesive, the tile and beating with a rubber hammer.
with a thickness of 10mm limit, otherwise proceed with a shaving before installation, this system is not applicable with small sizes, with smaller sizes, proceed with shaving of the walls.
speaking of history, in the early days that I started, the tiles were applied with lime and the process is +/- the same, then? . Now what do we do? If they are not worthy to call me pro tiler, remove to me all the colored badge, is not a problem for me. I'm just more than 30 years that I do this job, no one has ever called me to tell me, the tiles are falling off the wall, it's just luck ?. maybe yes.
P.S. internal shower, should be cared much more to prevent water seepage and thin tiles with this system is NOT APPLICABLE.

I always use a botched trowel with smaller

I read the trends, what to say ?.
Here in Italy, the story is different, all the walls are sand and cement, or similar.
90% of the works have crooked walls, then perfection is achieved only as said @Ste450 . I use the same +/- the same system, only add a layer of adhesive with the toothed blade, before application. Unfortunately, the advent of large formats requires me mostly the same system and also confirm that the tile is more clinging with this system, the only tiles that I saw fall from the walls were only applied with a serrated blade.
I'm not talking to pose with (dab or whatever the cazzo you say), he's talking about a draft of 80/90% of adhesive, the tile and beating with a rubber hammer.
with a thickness of 10mm limit, otherwise proceed with a shaving before installation, this system is not applicable with small sizes, with smaller sizes, proceed with shaving of the walls.
speaking of history, in the early days that I started, the tiles were applied with lime and the process is +/- the same, then? . Now what do we do? If they are not worthy to call me pro tiler, remove to me all the colored badge, is not a problem for me. I'm just more than 30 years that I do this job, no one has ever called me to tell me, the tiles are falling off the wall, it's just luck ?. maybe yes.
P.S. internal shower, should be cared much more to prevent water seepage and thin tiles with this system is NOT APPLICABLE.

Thank you Antonio, someone who understands. Of course with smaller tiles and mosaics, I'll use a notched trowel, but these days larger tiles are more commonly being used. Larger tiles are more commonly bowed as well, especially Villroy Boch which the largest tile I've laid was around 1200/500mm. The only way to get it so every joint is perfectly flush is to use this method, I don't want my joints out a 2/3mm or more, 1mm at the most.

In wet areas, obviously strive for 100% but your near enough always going to get a few small voids. I've read that wet areas take 6 months to dry out so any water caught in these small voids will find their way to the drain through gravity. With wet areas any problem will arise almost immediately after use. I tested one a few years back on a raised wet area. At the drain, I restricted the flow of water underneath the tiled surface and waited to see how long it would take for it to come through the ceiling (this is on my friends home with his consent) it wasn't long before water came through. After I put it back to normal...no problems at all there on 🙂

 

[Andy Allen]

How do you key the adhesive to the substrate if your just put loads of blobs on the tile?

 

[Ste450]

How do you key the adhesive to the substrate if your just put loads of blobs on the tile?

When you firmly push the tile onto the wall, the adhesive spreads out underneath, giving good coverage and a high bond. With all those badges you have on here, how can you not understand this concept or how adhesive adheres to a given substrate, it's simple stuff. Go and test it for yourself. Use a cement based rapid setting adhesive (Mapei Pro flex) The next day try and pull the tile off the wall...you'll bring all the plasterboard with it or if on a solid wall, you'll have to chisel it off. Do you not understand how drywall dot and dab works or how the adhesive bonds to the brick/block and plasterboard?

 

[Ste450]

When you firmly push the tile onto the wall, the adhesive spreads out underneath, giving good coverage and a high bond. With all those badges you have on here, how can you not understand this concept or how adhesive adheres to a given substrate, it's simple stuff. Go and test it for yourself. Use a cement based rapid setting adhesive (Mapei Pro flex) The next day try and pull the tile off the wall...you'll bring all the plasterboard with it or if on a solid wall, you'll have to chisel it off. Do you not understand how drywall "dot and dab" works...how the adhesive bonds to both block/brick and plasterboard?

 

[Andy Allen]

I won't be trying it....thanks..
Probably tile the whole bathroom by the time you've 'blobbed' a couple of tiles !!

 

[Ste450]

I won't be trying it....thanks..
Probably tile the whole bathroom by the time you've 'blobbed' a couple of tiles !!

 

[Tile Shop]

No need for anyone to be confrontational and hissy. Everyone here knows dot'n'dab can fail and we've seen the pictures to prove it. Its going to take a miracle for you to convince others it's ok. You just have to show everyone your method is different to the dot'n'dab that we all know and hate and that it works.

British Standards is a code of practice. They "recommend" spreading the adhesive so thats what everyone is going to do. If anything ever goes to court, that is the definitive black and white that they'll lean on. And if its not been done, prepare to duck the book when its thrown at you. Spreading is also part of the foundations for many of the adhesive manufacturers guarantees. Ignore that and you ain't got a claim if anything goes ****.

Personally I can still see it being quicker with a trowel. If it needs bedding out, spread the wall/floor and the tiles to double the bed depth. Or even "hover" the trowel away from the wall/floor to increase depth. Or better still, correct the wall/floor before starting.

But saying all that, you'll have a slim chance of convincing more people (even though they won't adopt the method) if you take pictures to back it up. One with the dabs and how you set them out, one with the tile fixed flat ideally showing the bed depth from the side, and another after you have just lifted it to prove the coverage you have obtained.

Then maybe we can move on and argue about something else. like which is better, Sigma or Rubi.............





I'll get me coat!

 

[Ste450]

I won't be trying it....thanks..
Probably tile the whole bathroom by the time you've 'blobbed' a couple of tiles !!

Well all I can say is that you asked me how I get my adhesive to key to a substrate, I've told you what I do then I've advised you to go see for yourself. I didn't ask you to tile a whole bathroom using this method, I simply advised you that you should TEST 1 tile out for yourself...

If your asking questions on how adhesive keys to a substrate, then you're clearly not qualified to give out advice on it

 

[Ste450]

No need for anyone to be confrontational and hissy. Everyone here knows dot'n'dab can fail and we've seen the pictures to prove it. Its going to take a miracle for you to convince others it's ok. You just have to show everyone your method is different to the dot'n'dab that we all know and hate and that it works.

British Standards is a code of practice. They "recommend" spreading the adhesive so thats what everyone is going to do. If anything ever goes to court, that is the definitive black and white that they'll lean on. And if its not been done, prepare to duck the book when its thrown at you. Spreading is also part of the foundations for many of the adhesive manufacturers guarantees. Ignore that and you ain't got a claim if anything goes ****.

Personally I can still see it being quicker with a trowel. If it needs bedding out, spread the wall/floor and the tiles to double the bed depth. Or even "hover" the trowel away from the wall/floor to increase depth. Or better still, correct the wall/floor before starting.

But saying all that, you'll have a slim chance of convincing more people (even though they won't adopt the method) if you take pictures to back it up. One with the dabs and how you set them out, one with the tile fixed flat ideally showing the bed depth from the side, and another after you have just lifted it to prove the coverage you have obtained.

Then maybe we can move on and argue about something else. like which is better, Sigma or Rubi.............





I'll get me coat!

I'm starting a job on Monday so when I start the tiling, I'll take some photos for you all.

There's no way tiles should be coming off a wall, ever...
And I'll never correct a wall that's 5/10mm out other than bedding the tiles out to suit, it's just extra work that would be unnecessary...unless there were mosaics or small tiles being laid 🙂

 

[Ste450]

I won't be trying it....thanks..
Probably tile the whole bathroom by the time you've 'blobbed' a couple of tiles !!

Well all I can say is that you asked me how I get my adhesive to key to a substrate, I've told you what I do then I've advised you to go see for yourself. I didn't ask you to tile a whole bathroom using this method, I simply advised you that you should TEST 1 tile out for yourself...

If your asking questions on how adhesive keys to a substrate, then you're clearly not qualified to give out advice on it

Quicker is not necessarily better...

 

[Tile Shop]

And I'll never correct a wall that's 5/10mm out other than bedding the tiles out to suit

I guess you mean on the condition that it won't exceed the maximum bed depth. You mentioned Mapei Pro Flex in a previous post. Is that your standard weapon of choice for most projects?

 

[Ste450]

I guess you mean on the condition that it won't exceed the maximum bed depth. You mentioned Mapei Pro Flex in a previous post. Is that your standard weapon of choice for most projects?

Mapei Pro Fex is 15mm max. Yeah, that's all I use these days, its good strong stuff. Bal is good gear also, just a little too expensive for what it is, I find.

 

[Andy Allen]

Well all I can say is that you asked me how I get my adhesive to key to a substrate, I've told you what I do then I've advised you to go see for yourself. I didn't ask you to tile a whole bathroom using this method, I simply advised you that you should TEST 1 tile out for yourself...

If your asking questions on how adhesive keys to a substrate, then you're clearly not qualified to give out advice on it

Wow....you really are full of yourself I'm sure your going to make loads of friends on here...🙂

 

[Ste450]

Mapei Pro Fex is 15mm max. Yeah, that's all I use these days, its good strong stuff. Bal is just too expensive for what it is, I find.

Wow....you really are full of yourself I'm sure your going to make loads of friends on here...🙂

I'm not here to make friends. I'm here to talk about using a different method to which has, for the most part, been met with hostility, ignorance and sarcasm...

 

[One Day]

OK, my 2 penneth; we should be aiming for 100% coverage. In reality we probably get 70-90% with notch trowel and back buttering.
You can achieve the same with multiple dabs of adhesive.
Disadvantage of dabs for me is i think it would take longer. It is a temptation to 'make do' with less coverage, and I'd only do it if i skimmed a layer of adhesive into the wall anyway.
Dabbing has it's place, i certainly do it when needed, but i would rather spend the additional time prepping my substrates.
Ste450 has been clear that he's not spot fixing in the sense most of us immediately think.

 

[Chalker]

I understand where you are coming from with your way of tiling and I also believe you will have very few, if any, failures.
But if you read back through most of your posts in this thread. You will ( I hope) see that they are vey confrontational. This gets others defensive from the off.

 

[Flintstone]

Do you skim any adhesive on the back of the tile or the wall or do you put blobs all over the back of the tile then stick it on the wall ?

 

[Ste450]

I understand where you are coming from with your way of tiling and I also believe you will have very few, if any, failures.
But if you read back through most of your posts in this thread. You will ( I hope) see that they are vey confrontational. This gets others defensive from the off.

I understand where you are coming from with your way of tiling and I also believe you will have very few, if any, failures.
But if you read back through most of your posts in this thread. You will ( I hope) see that they are vey confrontational. This gets others defensive from the off.

My first post wasn't confrontational at all, I put my point across well. A lot of the replies of mine to forum users afterwards, I'd agree were confrontational. But, when your getting told that you live in "cuckoo land," and being told things that would totally contradict your own findings and experiences, would you not feel compelled to confront these types of comments? Maybe people shouldn't be so arrogant in the first place. I agree that the way I write, sometimes can come across as quite direct, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I have no problem apologising if I'm in the wrong either.

 

[Ste450]

Do you skim any adhesive on the back of the tile or the wall or do you put blobs all over the back of the tile then stick it on the wall ?

Anything other than plasterboard I will prime. When it comes to laying, I'll wipe the wall over with a damp sponge to remove any dust and also the backs of all the tiles. I'll apply dots to a tile in a set formation (not randomly all over the back of the tile) making sure that there is more adhesive on the parts of the tile where I know the wall is out. You can tell whether or not you have enough adhesive on the tile as soon as you place it on the wall. It should take real firm push and a rub (agitates the adhesive) to get the tile flush with the others. If you're not used to tiling this way, of course it's going to take a longer, but for me I do it most of the time so I'd obviously be a lot faster at it. There is no question of the quality of adhesion I get when I tile. Like I've said, the odd occasion I've had to take tiles off, like if one has kicked out or I've forgotten to space it before it sets, it's taken most of the board with it or on solid walls, I've had to smash it then chisel it off with the SDS.

 

[Andy Allen]

All I asked was how you key the adhesive to the substrate......and you fly off on one of your little rants..lol
As others have said they would at least skim the substrate first before fixing the tile.....think I shall bow out of this one and leave you to it.....good luck...🙂

 

[Chalker]

There is a massive difference between dot and dabbing and solid bedding a tile. When you next the could you take some step by step pics of your process. Then a ballanced Veiw can be given.
I can't remember the name of the German guy ( amazing tiler) who used to cone on here. But he used to solid bed all the time. This was achieved by bedding the tile and wall, fitting the tile, then removing to see any voids. Re bedding, and lining up. He pretty much had 100% coverage.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Am I bothered?