dot and dab

[Ste450]

All I asked was how you key the adhesive to the substrate......and you fly off on one of your little rants..lol
As others have said they would at least skim the substrate first before fixing the tile.....think I shall bow out of this one and leave you to it.....good luck...🙂

Well in that case, I apologise for snapping the way I did. Priming is standard practice and its not the application that primes the surface providing a key, it's the preparation done beforehand. Come on, it's not hard to get tile adhesive to key, you must know this 😉

 

[Flintstone]

My method of dealing with low areas on the wall is to comb the wall, and comb the back of the tile also where needed, weather that is all the tile, half the tile, a 1\4 of the tile, whichever, and of course back butter the whole tile.
If more adhesive than that is required then really, it shouldn't be getting tiled, is should be prepared better. Its not unusual to have to use 10 or 12mm notch on the wall and the tile in certain areas. Same applies for floors and walls

 

[Ste450]

My method of dealing with low areas on the wall is to comb the wall, and comb the back of the tile also where needed, weather that is all the tile, half the tile, a 1\4 of the tile, whichever, and of course back butter the whole tile.
If more adhesive than that is required then really, it shouldn't be getting tiled, is should be prepared better. Its not unusual to have to use 10 or 12mm notch on the wall and the tile in certain areas. Same applies for floors and walls

Why does Mapei Pro flex have a maximum bed of 3-15mm then? It would suggest you can bed the tile out beyween those parameters would it not? Some of you are saying that you achieve 100% coverage, but time and time again when ripping out old tiles, I'm not seeing this "100%" bed when tiles have been removed. I'm seeing not a solid bed, but lines and lines of adhesive on the wall. Its like the tile has been laid as light as can be, just about touching the combed adhesive without much spread at all. As long as the tiles are not going to come off the wall and there's a lot more adhesive on the back than not then in my opinion, there's nothing wrong. Look at what Antonio said and how they do it in Italy, not by British Standard. Are you going to turn round and say they are doing it wrong because its not the British way? 🙂

 

[Old Mod]

I can't remember the name of the German guy ( amazing tiler) who used to cone on here.

Rainer Mitterbiller aka Rainsco.

 

[LM]

Rainer Mitterbiller aka Rainsco.

Beat me to it Marc 🙂

 

[MTiler]

Fair comment and I apologise for my part. What I don't like about these forums is that people are telling others that this method is bad or is cowboyish. You can tell from the standard of someone's work wether a job has been done with pride or not. I posted earlier an article of a new new method of spot tiling which everyone has conveniently seemed to ignore. People don't like to admit that maybe sometimes they can be wrong and that's the problem. I don't want customers coming up to me telling me I'm doing my job wrong because they've been looking in a forum such as this! I don't use "5 spots" but how would they know that, they would just see me spotting the back of the tile and presume the worst. I'm going to write to the British Standards agency myself to express feelings on the matter, how far I get I'm unsure. I didn't intend to come here to cause trouble...

The article has nothing to do with what youre doing because its about a high performance epoxy adhesive, and its an Aussie article.

 

[Fraser Tiling]

Love this thread.
Agree with Ste450, I use a combination of methods with large format tiles on bad walls, which 95% of walls are in my experience.
I spead wall, spread tile, dots where extra needed, then back fill edges.
Will sometimes just multi dot, then back fill, allways ensure this a healthy amout of excess adhesive sqeezed out as they're fixed.
Been using this method for a decade.
Had no failures.
Had to replace tiles after being damaged and all have had excellent coverage.
If walls were flat and plumb I'd trowel them, but so rarely are.
At the end of the day, both methods provide about the same amount of coverage.
Whatever gets the job done properly.
Ste450, it's easy to feel a bit picked on,
remember these guys on this site who are trusted advisors can only give advise conforming to current industry standards. Other members who don't will often have a different opinions.
If you post a picture on this site, it will be microscoped and any imperfections will be highlighted.
Don't feel like your getting picked on, it's the norm.

 

[Flintstone]

I think most of us have to add some extra adhesive some times, I think it's The fact that Steve appears to be recommending it and praising this method when most of us look at it as a last resort

 

[Dumbo]

Why does Mapei Pro flex have a maximum bed of 3-15mm then? It would suggest you can bed the tile out beyween those parameters would it not? Some of you are saying that you achieve 100% coverage, but time and time again when ripping out old tiles, I'm not seeing this "100%" bed when tiles have been removed. I'm seeing not a solid bed, but lines and lines of adhesive on the wall. Its like the tile has been laid as light as can be, just about touching the combed adhesive without much spread at all. As long as the tiles are not going to come off the wall and there's a lot more adhesive on the back than not then in my opinion, there's nothing wrong. Look at what Antonio said and how they do it in Italy, not by British Standard. Are you going to turn round and say they are doing it wrong because its not the British way? 🙂

To be honest and I'm not having a go but they fix to different substrates in Italy and Spain . I bring Spain in because I've been told by a tiler who used to live there it's basically thick bed splodging there as well . The problem is a 15mm solid bed would way 25 kilos not including tile weight onto plaster or plasterboard

 

[Fraser Tiling]

I think most of us have to add some extra adhesive some times, I think it's The fact that Steve appears to be recommending it and praising this method when most of us look at it as a last resort

I think we all survey a wall before tiling it, and if Ste450 deemed it flat enough to 10mm notch trowel it, he would.
It's quicker, ensures a good bed, and puts you in a good mood.
But it in reality, it's so rare.

 

[LM]

I think the biggist cause of all the friction on this thread has been the way it was approached from the outset. In life it's all about the way you ask for things, the manner in which you do it can completely change the answer you may get and by posting in a sense your asking for a reply. This therefore could have easily been a very interesting and constructive debate.
Ste450's initial reply to Andy's post which was years old and bumped, was in my opinion very obnoxious and for no reason, add into the fact that dot and dabbing is wrong for so many reasons then you can start to understand why he received the reaction he did.
You may well complete a finished job that all the tiles are flush on, but ONE of the major things wrong with it that has already been pointed out but ignored is the max weight load of plaster board. Those weight limits weren't invented for fun.
You will go a very long way before you will find a forum who's members are as qualified and genuinely generous to offer their advise for free than this one and we who are this forum are proud of that.
A point put accross in a more mannerly fashion will be considered, discussed and respected!

 

[Andrew Anaxagoras]

I spread and dot and dab and frequently combine...A lot of the walls I'm presented with leave no choice and I'm afraid it's all about the finish for me...I'll live with 60% coverage

 

[Ste450]

The article has nothing to do with what youre doing because its about a high performance epoxy adhesive, and its an Aussie article.

We're on a "dot and dab" thread and this is a "dot and dab" article, so it has some relevance. So what if it's an Australian article?

 

[Ste450]

I spread and dot and dab and frequently combine...A lot of the walls I'm presented with leave no choice and I'm afraid it's all about the finish for me...I'll live with 60% coverage

To be honest and I'm not having a go but they fix to different substrates in Italy and Spain . I bring Spain in because I've been told by a tiler who used to live there it's basically thick bed splodging there as well . The problem is a 15mm solid bed would way 25 kilos not including tile weight onto plaster or plasterboard

again...no problems with this for 13 years for me. So what about different tile weights then? Plasterboard is stronger than you think.

 

[Fraser Tiling]

I think the biggist cause of all the friction on this thread has been the way it was approached from the outset. In life it's all about the way you ask for things, the manner in which you do it can completely change the answer you may get and by posting in a sense your asking for a reply. This therefore could have easily been a very interesting and constructive debate.
Ste450's initial reply to Andy's post which was years old and bumped, was in my opinion very obnoxious and for no reason, add into the fact that dot and dabbing is wrong for so many reasons then you can start to understand why he received the reaction he did.
You may well complete a finished job that all the tiles are flush on, but ONE of the major things wrong with it that has already been pointed out but ignored is the max weight load of plaster board. Those weight limits weren't invented for fun.
You will go a very long way before you will find a forum who's members are as qualified and genuinely generous to offer their advise for free than this one and we who are this forum are proud of that.
A point put accross in a more mannerly fashion will be considered, discussed and respected!

Didn't know there was hidden history, Ste450's post didn't look that bad to me.
Don't think anyone would be criticising the wealth of quality advise from experts on this site, it's second to none.
Seems like the d+d method is still well practiced, and perhaps not as outrageous as first implied.
It's very easy to be overly passionate about your point of view and sound a bit aggressive, especially if your not experienced in forum etiquette, and easy to be over defensive.
Either way, makes for good reading!

 

[Ste450]

I think the biggist cause of all the friction on this thread has been the way it was approached from the outset. In life it's all about the way you ask for things, the manner in which you do it can completely change the answer you may get and by posting in a sense your asking for a reply. This therefore could have easily been a very interesting and constructive debate.
Ste450's initial reply to Andy's post which was years old and bumped, was in my opinion very obnoxious and for no reason, add into the fact that dot and dabbing is wrong for so many reasons then you can start to understand why he received the reaction he did.
You may well complete a finished job that all the tiles are flush on, but ONE of the major things wrong with it that has already been pointed out but ignored is the max weight load of plaster board. Those weight limits weren't invented for fun.
You will go a very long way before you will find a forum who's members are as qualified and genuinely generous to offer their advise for free than this one and we who are this forum are proud of that.
A point put accross in a more mannerly fashion will be considered, discussed and respected!

Totally disagree. My first post was spot on and got my point across and all I got back, for the most part was ignorance and sarcasm. it's more like I've ruffled a few feathers and people don't like it...

 

[Ste450]

Didn't know there was hidden history, Ste450's post didn't look that bad to me.
Don't think anyone would be criticising the wealth of quality advise from experts on this site, it's second to none.
Seems like the d+d method is still well practiced, and perhaps not as outrageous as first implied.
It's very easy to be overly passionate about your point of view and sound a bit aggressive, especially if your not experienced in forum etiquette, and easy to be over defensive.
Either way, makes for good reading!

Thank you mate 🙂

 

[Ste450]

I spread and dot and dab and frequently combine...A lot of the walls I'm presented with leave no choice and I'm afraid it's all about the finish for me...I'll live with 60% coverage

I think I read somewhere a few years ago that the recommendation was 60-65% coverage

 

[hmtiling]

I think I read somewhere a few years ago that the recommendation was 60-65% coverage

i very much doubt that

 

[Ste450]

Love this thread.
Agree with Ste450, I use a combination of methods with large format tiles on bad walls, which 95% of walls are in my experience.
I spead wall, spread tile, dots where extra needed, then back fill edges.
Will sometimes just multi dot, then back fill, allways ensure this a healthy amout of excess adhesive sqeezed out as they're fixed.
Been using this method for a decade.
Had no failures.
Had to replace tiles after being damaged and all have had excellent coverage.
If walls were flat and plumb I'd trowel them, but so rarely are.
At the end of the day, both methods provide about the same amount of coverage.
Whatever gets the job done properly.
Ste450, it's easy to feel a bit picked on,
remember these guys on this site who are trusted advisors can only give advise conforming to current industry standards. Other members who don't will often have a different opinions.
If you post a picture on this site, it will be microscoped and any imperfections will be highlighted.
Don't feel like your getting picked on, it's the norm.

...but there were no imperfections 😉

 

[Ste450]

To be honest and I'm not having a go but they fix to different substrates in Italy and Spain . I bring Spain in because I've been told by a tiler who used to live there it's basically thick bed splodging there as well . The problem is a 15mm solid bed would way 25 kilos not including tile weight onto plaster or plasterboard

Also, there are ma

i very much doubt that

And I think it was on the back of a tub of Mapei red top. But I can't say 100% for sure.

 

[hmtiling]

Also, there are ma


And I think it was on the back of a tub of Mapei red top. But I can't say 100% for sure.

Oh, ok.

 

[widler]

There's a bloke on a Facebook forum i go on for a laugh, biggest dicks I've ever come across (I know, that sounds a bit **** 🙁 )
There's a tiler called simon benn from Leeds , if he comes on here 'hi Simon' ,
He always says he d&ds on every job, walls and floors ,and been doing it 20 years with no problems at all, his website /Facebook page work looks good , I will have a look for it now.

Found it
S,B,Tiling LTD - http://www.sbtiling.co.uk/

 

[Ste450]

To be honest and I'm not having a go but they fix to different substrates in Italy and Spain . I bring Spain in because I've been told by a tiler who used to live there it's basically thick bed splodging there as well . The problem is a 15mm solid bed would way 25 kilosnot including tile weight onto plaster or plasterboard

I can imagine that the recommendations for maximum weight are well under what it can actually take. We see it also with airline maximum speeds, we see it with sell by dates. Manufactures need to cover their arses big time, so they give a Maximum which will be well under fail zone, to do just that...cover their arses. Like I've said 13 years...no problems arrising from this. That's just myself, my old mans been in the building game for 40 years...

 

[Ttt1601]

I think there has been a bit of confusion between different ideas on this thread, if you say dot and dab, to me that is 5 spot method, which we ALL agree is wrong, this confusion has got people's back up on different sides of the discussion as they are talking different method and still not agreeing, to me, combing a wall with a notched trowel and back buttering is best, but only if you do it right and ensure coverage, ste knows his method of using many dabs works, compressed to achieve high rate coverage works, a method on bad walls I do use just a bit differently to ste, I and almost everyone agrees this method can have a place in the industry, if done correct, if ste chooses to do it all the time, does it right, gets good coverage and good results and good quality then to me the only issue across this whole thread really, is people's perception of what dot and dab or spot fixing actually means. 5 spot is wrong what are does isn't when done correctly

 

[widler]

I tiled a bathroom about ten years ago with quartz tiles on plasterboard , according to bs far too much weight , they are still on to this day , solid as a rock , you would pull the house down trying to get them off .

 

[Ste450]

There's a bloke on a Facebook forum i go on for a laugh, biggest dicks I've ever come across (I know, that sounds a bit **** 🙁 )
There's a tiler called simon benn from Leeds , if he comes on here 'hi Simon' ,
He always says he d&ds on every job, walls and floors ,and been doing it 20 years with no problems at all, his website /Facebook page work looks good , I will have a look for it now.

Found it
S,B,Tiling LTD - http://www.sbtiling.co.uk/[

I think there has been a bit of confusion between different ideas on this thread, if you say dot and dab, to me that is 5 spot method, which we ALL agree is wrong, this confusion has got people's back up on different sides of the discussion as they are talking different method and still not agreeing, to me, combing a wall with a notched trowel and back buttering is best, but only if you do it right and ensure coverage, ste knows his method of using many dabs works, compressed to achieve high rate coverage works, a method on bad walls I do use just a bit differently to ste, I and almost everyone agrees this method can have a place in the industry, if done correct, if ste chooses to do it all the time, does it right, gets good coverage and good results and good quality then to me the only issue across this whole thread really, is people's perception of what dot and dab or spot fixing actually means. 5 spot is wrong what are does isn't when done correctly

Definitely! Well said! Its all about coverage, not the method you use to achieve it 🙂

 

[Ste450]

I tiled a bathroom about ten years ago with quartz tiles on plasterboard , according to bs far too much weight , they are still on to this day , solid as a rock , you would pull the house down trying to get them off .

Ripped a few like that out before now, bloody nightmare lol! Well solid!

 

[Italy]

I think there has been a bit of confusion between different ideas on this thread, if you say dot and dab, to me that is 5 spot method, which we ALL agree is wrong, this confusion has got people's back up on different sides of the discussion as they are talking different method and still not agreeing, to me, combing a wall with a notched trowel and back buttering is best, but only if you do it right and ensure coverage, ste knows his method of using many dabs works, compressed to achieve high rate coverage works, a method on bad walls I do use just a bit differently to ste, I and almost everyone agrees this method can have a place in the industry, if done correct, if ste chooses to do it all the time, does it right, gets good coverage and good results and good quality then to me the only issue across this whole thread really, is people's perception of what dot and dab or spot fixing actually means. 5 spot is wrong what are does isn't when done correctly

exactly, it was what I wanted to say. thank you

 

[Ste450]

i very much doubt that

It was about 8 years ago mind, but I've had a look on Mapei's website and found the technical specs. It now says 80% coverage... 🙂

http://www.mapei.com/public/US/products/Type_1_EN_lr.pdf

 

[hmtiling]

It was about 8 years ago mind, but I've had a look on Mapei's website and found the technical specs. It now says 80% coverage... 🙂

http://www.mapei.com/public/US/products/Type_1_EN_lr.pdf

View attachment 87335

and 16 years ago did it say 40/50% coverage?