Should We Used Old Methods For Todays Problems

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

Of course the massive paradox for me is that the Greeks, Italians, Germans and the Romans, the Egyptians, the Chinese and probably a number of other societies were using gypsum flooring hundreds, or thousands of years ago. The Romans, Greeks and Italians and Chinese definitely tiled these floors yet when they made a come back in the mid 90's in the UK we seemed to have lost all common sense as we had no idea. Even now there are many tilers who are ignorant when it comes to these screeds which to me seems madness. I wonder how long a new technology has to be around before it becomes "old" . Ah well.... I'll keep plugging away at it

so who failure is it to get the info out there the rubbish recycule foor layers who cant tell you day to day what there laying. or the tile shops that do there best to guess or the builder who thinks this will speed up the job .or may be the tta or even british standards well i would start by sending out leaflets to every tile shop do you know what you are tiling on to day heres a few clues what you need to look for .but we in the tile world have to deal with the three wise monkeys every day see no evil talk no evil hear evil well looking in tilers need a union to look after there interest first and not the run away surpliers who take you down one at a time in secret the bad news never get out its called devide and concoure its all ways the long game were the tiler looses

 

[Ajax123]

But that is my point Ray.... The info is out there regarding gypsum floors. It just amazes me that tile shops in general, many tilers, builders, main contractors don't access it. It's free, and easy to access. It's all over the Internet. I made sure if that in my previous employment and have continued to do solver since. The info is available from all the major manufacturers. Of course there is always an element in the trade that do access it and ignore it, that's the same in all walks of the building trade.

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

But that is my point Ray.... The info is out there regarding gypsum floors. It just amazes me that tile shops in general, many tilers, builders, main contractors don't access it. It's free, and easy to access. It's all over the Internet. I made sure if that in my previous employment and have continued to do solver since. The info is available from all the major manufacturers. Of course there is always an element in the trade that do access it and ignore it, that's the same in all walks of the building trade.

alan i do admire all your efforts but you need to secure some sort of buget to get the message out there to pass on the info they need to give .to give you some idea how this is still not out there every week week in week out we train tilers who are fitting our tiles 3 to 4 a week some times double if more than one come .about 50% get the fixing wrong on your floors now when it comes to clients buying tiles its over 90% who are going to tell there tilers they have a screed floor have no idear they have to comision the heating first or tell there tilers it has to be sanded and sealed they just want the job done as quickly as poss .i do my best on the front line .i did here that all these floors from now on were going to be died red a great step forward is this true. on your part a great effort to make your floors stand out and long over due

 

[Ajax123]

Perhaps we should talk about getting some training in place for tilers fixing your tiles. I've done that with a number of adhesive companies before.

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

Perhaps we should talk about getting some training in place for tilers fixing your tiles. I've done that with a number of adhesive companies before.

there just not passing this on in any way. why they still do not put the info on there bags of adhesive is beond me such a simple step to make on flow screed please ring for further info all it would take in big red letters all sides working tougher for the greater good for all .so are you going to add red diy to your floors to make them stand out to make a diffrence at very little cost our have i heard wrong

 

[Just Rizzle]

There is a lot to be said for some of the "old ways" from a construction point of view the Victorians had some great ways of. Sbuilding but we want to build faster and cheaper nowadays and of course we seem to have this love affair witportland cement which doesn't really help IMO.

but are we building faster if we have to weight 1day for every mill that the screed is thick when once over we could screed and tile and use in a week

 

[Just Rizzle]

Perhaps we should talk about getting some training in place for tilers fixing your tiles. I've done that with a number of adhesive companies before.

your not getting it the industry has been taken over by the big shedds making fortunes out of modern addys and the industry is getting ripped off
was in morocco 3 weeks ago and was watching a couple of guys working on a the tiles around a swimming pool which addy do you think they were using.
answer none
they were fixing in good old sand and cement and grouting in the same .

 

[Spare Tool]

well having tiled over wet under floor heating with sand and cement laying the tiles as i go straight into the wet sand and cement over 12 years ago the floors never failed kitchen fitted four days latter
i think we have gone backwards screed fix tiles into screed one day grout next two days later they fit kitchen 3days come back tile spashbacks 1 day finshed 8 days finnished./ today float screed wait 60 days to dry out test floor still not dry as its been raining and damp out side wait anther 14 days test again ok ready to tile but still to commission the heating anther 10 days go by 1 day sanding floor cleaning up 1 day prime wait to dry 1 day putting down the decouplar 1day tile 1 day grout fit kitchen 3 days 1 day tile splash back

so 12 years later we have turned an 8 day job completed in to a 93 day job completed
may be 12 years from now it might just take 186 days now thats real progress

Far as I'm aware some wet UFH systems don,t need a 70mm screed over them, after testing they can have 10mm of fibre leveller over them, leave overnight then ditra and tile with flexi rapid set day after, can be grouted 3 hours after that.
I'm a new school tiler as only been at this 9 years so not picking holes in old methods i haven't ever used and unable to comment on but in my book that is progress

 

[Just Rizzle]

Far as I'm aware some wet UFH systems don,t need a 70mm screed over them, after testing they can have 10mm of fibre leveller over them, leave overnight then ditra and tile with flexi rapid set day after, can be grouted 3 hours after that.
I'm a new school tiler as only been at this 9 years so not picking holes in old methods i haven't ever used and unable to comment on but in my book that is progress

yes that could be done but your then a slave to the tile sheds would probably cost 20x what it could cost if done in sand and cement .itis the cost of all these materials needed to do it your way that im getting at .

 

[Spare Tool]

yes that could be done but your then a slave to the tile sheds would probably cost 20x what it could cost if done in sand and cement .itis the cost of all these materials needed to do it your way that im getting at .

I understand what your getting at Ray, like I say never used S&C for fixing tiles, when I started bagged addy was and still is for me the way and the price of it is what it is. Can't recall ever picking up a bag of cement and it states it can be used for fixing tiles to a wood or plasterboard substrate. I know this particular job hasn't got those issues but that's what modern flexible adhesives and uncoupling were invented for.
At a guess your customers daughters wedding probably won't be cheap either...imagine how happy she'll be doing the first dance on her dads lovely warm newly tiled floor regardless of the few hundred extra quid it cost to get it completed in time..just reread your first post and if the screed done next week you might just be able to finish sealing tiles on the morning of the wedding. Do it the new way and it'll be done and dusted before the Stagg do

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

Far as I'm aware some wet UFH systems don,t need a 70mm screed over them, after testing they can have 10mm of fibre leveller over them, leave overnight then ditra and tile with flexi rapid set day after, can be grouted 3 hours after that.
I'm a new school tiler as only been at this 9 years so not picking holes in old methods i haven't ever used and unable to comment on but in my book that is progress

so its no quicker then .50mm is plenty 35 mm with ronafix run through the screed .
have you used your method or know any tilers that have .
or is this from ufh systems fixers .

 

[Just Rizzle]

I understand what your getting at Ray, like I say never used S&C for fixing tiles, when I started bagged addy was and still is for me the way and the price of it is what it is. Can't recall ever picking up a bag of cement and it states it can be used for fixing tiles to a wood or plasterboard substrate. I know this particular job hasn't got those issues but that's what modern flexible adhesives and uncoupling were invented for.
At a guess your customers daughters wedding probably won't be cheap either...imagine how happy she'll be doing the first dance on her dads lovely warm newly tiled floor regardless of the few hundred extra quid it cost to get it completed in time..just reread your first post and if the screed done next week you might just be able to finish sealing tiles on the morning of the wedding. Do it the new way and it'll be done and dusted before the Stagg do

 

[Spare Tool]

The wet systems I'm referring to are the type that use an overlayed board that the pipes slot into grooves cut in the boards and yes Ray I have used this method on them, quite a few times..it was webber technical that put me onto it. Not the UFH system manufacturers who IMO seem to think that you can just stick tiles to anything. I started a thread about a month ago on and if I remember correctly think it was Bri that also uses this method to cover the pipe work..

 

[Just Rizzle]

from start to finish its a 3 day job for me and my son
hes never done a floor this way so want to do it to show him how easy it can be .if the guy puts a anhydrite leveller down hes pushing it to have it ready by july 25th
ive give him a price ,and can fit him in end june and saving him money and stress hes already had a 7 week delay with his conservatory and the money I can save him will probably pay for the drinks bill

 

[Just Rizzle]

The wet systems I'm referring to are the type that use an overlayed board that the pipes slot into grooves cut in the boards and yes Ray I have used this method on them, quite a few times..it was webber technical that put me onto it. Not the UFH system manufacturers who IMO seem to think that you can just stick tiles to anything. I started a thread about a month ago on and if I remember correctly think it was Bri that also uses this method to cover the pipe work..

didn't you say the leveller was going to cost £1500 or was that some one else